Ferrari isn’t just a car company - it’s one of the most successful luxury goods businesses on the planet. Since listing in 2015, Ferrari’s stock (RACE) has risen more than 640%, outperforming gold, Tesla, and almost every major index. In this episode John Connolly joins me to unpack the economics behind the prancing horse.
Ferrari’s success comes down to a simple but powerful idea: engineered scarcity. The company deliberately limits production, maintains long waiting lists, and requires buyers of ultra exclusive models to already be part of the Ferrari “club.” This scarcity drives demand, protects resale values, and supports margins that rival Hermès - with Ferrari operating at around 28%.
Another major driver is customisation. Around 20% of Ferrari’s revenue comes from bespoke options: paint, leather, stitching, carbon fibre, and one off specifications that can add $200,000 or more to a single car. These features also boost resale value, especially in the booming classic car market where rare Ferraris regularly sell for $40M–$100M.
We also explore Ferrari’s EV strategy, the psychology of collectors, and how beginners can get exposure through ETFs or fractional investing.
TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS AFTER THIS BRIEF MESSAGE
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Phil Muscatello: G' day and welcome back to Shares for Beginners. I'm Phil Muscatello. Today we're diving into one of the strangest truths in markets. Ferrari stock has been a better investment than gold. I'm quoting today's guest from the Australian newspaper. Ferrari shares have absolutely monstered gold over the past two years. 10 years, rising about 640% since its 2015 IPO. We're going to be exploring how a company that deliberately builds fewer cars creates more value and what this means for investors, the stock, the brand, the auction market, and why anyone would pay $50 million for a 1960s race car. My guest today is John Connolly, motoring columnist, car flesh whisperer and occasional track day renegade. Hello, John.
John Connolly: Hello, Phil. Good to speak to you.
Phil Muscatello: Yeah, nice to speak to you as well. So, Ferrari, why invest in anything else?
John Connolly: Well, I think to follow your advice you need diversification. But you know, the other investments would feel pretty beige compared to Ferrari, I think. And there's not much more excitement in any stock, even our friends at Tesla who are trying to go to the moon as there is in Ferrari. But uh, I'd go back a step and think that what you're investing is real in really is luxury goods. So I'd forget Ferrari as a car and just think about it as a luxury good in the same way you'd think about Hermes, Cartier watches, you know, Bollinger champagne, whatever else. So the two most successful luxury stocks in the world, LVMH and Hermes, uh, and I look at the comparison with Ferrari and Hermes rather than anything else, and the beauty of both is engineered scarcity. In other words. The problem I think every other luxury good manufacturer has is they chase growth at any cost. And the minute you're making too much of something, it becomes less valuable. So Hermes of course limit the number of bags they can make. They're all hand stitched, they're handmade and they cost new, about 25 to 50 to $100,000. And the beauty of that is then it allows them to sell things like scarves and handkerchiefs and, you know, bracelets and whatever for, uh, four or five hundred. And people think they're getting part of that brand and they have long term thinking they've done this for 179 years. Ferrari is somewhat newer, 1947, the brand goes back longer than that. But they're trying to do the same thing their own. They've got a cap on the number of cars they build. So there's a waiting list to buy a Ferrari and to buy the really small number of very, very expensive Ferraris, you have to be a Ferrari owner. So you have to be a member of the club to spend a million dollars. Which I think is a bit like if you've walked past an Hermes store or Louis Vuitton store, you see people queued outside to spend $1,000. Well, you know, at Ferrari you queue outside to spend a minimum of a million dollars and you might wait for two years on the waiting list even then to spend it. So it's engineered scarcity. So that's one thing. The second thing is Hermes does very little advertising. Ferrari's main advertising is through Formula one. And the beauty compared to all other advertisers is Ferrari makes money out of Formula one. So its main form of advertising, which is the race cars and the two race drivers and the red, they actually contribute about, in US dollars, about 750 million, so over 1.5 billion Australian and they make about 150 million US out of it. So their advertising is actually paid for, which is, you know, uh, not bad out of sponsorships, all sorts of stuff. So I think it's better to think of them as a luxury goods company that does very well. So if you're thinking about
00:05:00
John Connolly: buying into the luxury good market and you can't afford to buy a Ferrari share, which they're at a low, about US$360 at the moment, then you could buy an ETF exchange traded fund that has Ferrari in it or through the Commonwealth bank or similarly you could buy maybe $2,000 worth of Ferrari shares, probably give you what, two and a half which you know, make you feel better about yourself and you can say, I own a Ferrari or a piece of Ferrari, so it's good. But, but I mean, I think Phil, they should follow your advice, which is you want diversity. So all stocks have their up and downs. You know, the secret in life, as you know, and I'm sure you know when to tell people to do it, is buy low and sell high. So it's a timing issue, but you have to say on performance, this is a stock that's done very, very well and as I said over time, actually better than gold.
Phil Muscatello: And it's available under the ticker race, which is one of the great race on the New York Stock Exchange. Or um, if you're in Italy in The Milan Stock Exchange.
John Connolly: Exactly.
Phil Muscatello: I also believe that one of the points about the financials of Ferrari is that they don't actually start building a machine until they've got the money in the bank from the pre order. Is that the case?
John Connolly: Yeah, that's exactly the case. I mean they do produce some cars for stock at the lower end, which in Australia probably means $700,000. But uh, there is a waiting list. So, you know, your chance of doing a deal on a new Ferrari is not easy. Resale values are uh, very good for, you know, probably over seven or eight years. They fall off after that on the classic Ferraris over the last. Now there's been a jump in the market in December, but let's say over a year used Ferraris, classic Ferraris I'm talking about, have outperformed every other brand. They've been up about 35% on the used car, used classic car market. So yes, there's a constant demand on the, you know, the one off, not one off models, maybe the hundred off models or whatever. Yes, they wait till they have the orders in then Bill, which is why. But even then, sorry, go back a step. Even then you have to be a member of the club. You've already spent a couple of mil on Ferraris to be able to buy one. So they're pretty sure that you're not going to renege on waiting two years for your car to turn up.
Phil Muscatello: John, can you run us through a couple of the numbers in the article? You gave us a little bit of an investment analysis. Have you got those numbers there in front of you?
John Connolly: Well, I think the starting point is we're talking about going back to a point in time when Ferrari first listed. But if you look over that period of time then they've done extraordinarily well. They reached a high of around about US dollars, around about $520. They've come back off that to a low now of about 360. Still well, well well above the issue price and still yielding the kind of numbers we talked about over that period of time. Their margins, unlike I think anyone in any business would be happy to have them, particularly the car market. But their margins run around 28% which is better than the kick in the pants and certainly better than BHP and other people are doing and Coles and Woolies. So that's pretty good return on capital investment. Sort of any other measure you want it more make and it uh, puts the stock around about at the moment at low around about 65 billion US 100 billion Australian, which makes it in the luxury market. About the fifth most valuable stock in that luxury market. Now, don't forget the two big ones we talked about. LVMH and Hermes are up around 200 billion each, but, you know, at 65 billion, they're running about, uh, fifth or sixth. And the thing to bear in mind, if you wanted to compare them to other automotive companies, so certainly they outperform every other regular company by a million miles, but they actually outperform Tesla as well by a substantial margin.
00:10:00
John Connolly: So on any measure you want to take, you know, they. On an automotive investment, if you want to be an automotive. On a luxury goods investment, they're a shining star. And you know, the normal margin, as I said, for car makers is low sevens or eights. They can occasionally get up on an EBITDA margin at around 40%. So, you know, Hermes makes the same sort of margins. Ferrari are in the same class. That's a pretty good thing. And I think demand in that market, both Ferraris as cars and Ferraris as an investment, is pretty resilient, despite most other luxury stocks and certainly all other automotive stocks really being in the pits, so to speak. Yeah, sorry about the punishment.
Phil Muscatello: When you're surrounded by cars and car culture, you can't help yourself, can you?
John Connolly: No.
Phil Muscatello: Ditch. The spreadsheets share site is Investopedia's top tracker for DIY investors. Invest smarter, not harder. Grab four months free on an annual premium plan at shareside.com shares for beginners. So what's the revenue stream from? Customization? Because you don't just buy a Ferrari, you've got to get one that's particularly matched to your own style.
John Connolly: Yeah, well, I think this is. In a normal car dealership, when you go in, the biggest profit earner is finance, and then the second is customization. So when you go in to buy your Volkswagen or your Toyota, the dealer, uh, the salesman or woman will try and sell you every bit known to person. So roof racks, different colors, leather seats,
Phil Muscatello: panoramic sunroofs, which, all sorts of stuff.
John Connolly: Right. So Ferrari make that look like child's play. So a, their revenue is around about US$10 billion. Right. Overall, but where they get this margin from is the cars themselves. But then around about 20% of their revenue comes from customization. Now on a Toyota, you could probably spend at the most $2,000 on a piece of kit that they'll send you, you know, tinted windows, something like that. But at Ferrari, everything is. It's not just pick red or yellow from the Brochure. There's be stoked leather you can get, there's the stitching. You can say what color you want, what quality you want, whatever else you can nominate the paint, the trim on the car and you feel happy for paying for that privilege. So we're talking about going from saying spending $700,000 to maybe up to probably 900,000 for that car. So an extra 200 grand on um, bits and pieces. And you know, you feel lucky to do that. It does come back to you. So if you're buying a slightly pre used Ferrari, then.
Phil Muscatello: An investable Ferrari, Yeah.
John Connolly: These things actually do add on to the value of your car. So the more clearly the more unique it is, the more money you going to get. But the bottom line is they've taken these extra specifications or customization and turned it into a major profit center. So not an extra two or three thousand, an extra hundred to two hundred thousand. And then if you go to these sort of what I call one off, but they're really 100 off or whatever, then you're talking about paying an extra 400,000, 500,000 for those cars. But equally when you go to sell, they're the ones that appear at auctions as 1 of 40, 1 of 100, 1 of 20. And that gives you extraordinary value and, um, value. And that's why if you buy the right ones, classic Ferraris are uh, pretty good investment as well. So you know, they're now selling. We saw a white Ferrari go at auction two weeks ago in the States for around 40 million, which is more than you and I make a week. Well, probably more than I make. All you got to know about you, Phil. So these, and the Ferrari GTOs, these
00:15:00
John Connolly: legendary 250s, you know, are approaching a hundred, 110 million Australian. So they've been very good investments. But why? A couple of things. One, they're rare. So these cars could be one of say 40 or 50. But then there's a history. Was it driven by Sterling Moss? Was it driven by someone? Was it raced at Le Mans? Did it come second at Le Mans? That adds another thing of rarity to it. And then there's the provenance. Was it owned by JD Rockefeller for all its life or two famous owners? That adds to it as well. And so the net result of all these things coming together, even if it's been praying, written off, whatever, add up to an extraordinary amount of money that for these sort of cars, I can't see a, uh, decline. They're bought by people who have wealth beyond Our comprehension. So I remember talking to one of these owners in Switzerland, and he said, you know, uh, what we talk about, John, is not how many cars we've got in our garage, but how many levels the garage is. So they go underground. And do I have only six levels or do I have 10 levels? If I'm taking it to a car show, I rent a plane, not for me, but for the car. So I charter a car, a plane big enough to go from Geneva to somewhere in California. So that's how they get them around. So I can't see these like any other rare, rare diamonds. Rare, whatever. It's hard to see the physical cars declining in value.
Phil Muscatello: Is merchandise any part? I mean, I'm assuming it would be a small part of the revenue. But having stood in the queue at the Ferrari store in Milan, they must be selling something. They must contribute something as well as to the mystique.
John Connolly: They've been at the game in a shorter period of time than the others. And I'm talking about the others, the big successful, Hermes, Louis Vuitton, all that sort of stuff. It took them. Don't forget Mr. Ferrari. Enzo hated selling cars to people who want to drive them on the road. He actually didn't like doing it, and he only got forced into doing it because he needed the money to pay for his race cars. So this is a company that didn't want anything to do with consumers, right? They just wanted to sell it to rich people who actually went racing and had good racing drivers in it. So they were forced, over time, do all this other stuff we're talking about. So merchandise initially, and now I'm talking as maybe in the 90s into the early 2000s, their merchandising was pretty crap, right? So, you know, and. And quite frankly, it was pretty cheap. You could buy a Ferrari polo shirt, whatever, uh, for maybe 100 bucks, which is less than a Ralph Lauren shirt whatever whatever. About five or six years ago, they took a decision to say, look, this has got to be worth a lot more than we're doing it for. And if you look at Porsche and others who do well with this merchandise, they then have now taken a step back, Got a famous designer that I've never heard of, but evidently he's famous. And now they're going into a range of upmarket sort of fashion, including moving the prices of all the things you queued for. And interesting enough, and people say Lewis Hamilton hasn't performed for them. Lewis Hamilton has added a whole lot of value because he's about style, merchandise you know, he's a brand in himself, all of that. So they're getting more and more into that. It's still not a bad part of the revenue. It's tied into the Formula One stuff. But they're now moving much more into the luxury fashion stuff. Now, don't forget where they've also been clever, unlike anyone else, is on what I'd call spare parts. Not the spare parts you buy when you get your Toyota serviced, using the aftermarket parts.
Phil Muscatello: Yeah.
John Connolly: So they sell, for instance, online, they
00:20:00
John Connolly: have what they call a museum section. And they might sell a camshaft from what they say was the 1989 F1 winning or something race car for 50 to 60 thousand dollars. And they'll sell a bit of metal that came from something else like that. And the minimum price for these things is around five and it goes up to 250 grand, so they're doing that as well. But I think where they see the growth is in upmarket merchandise. You know, Porsche have Porsche sunglasses, all of this sort of stuff. They can see they can get a much higher premium for much more fashionable gear. And you'll find that T shirt or polo shirt you bought in Milan is going to be a lot more expensive from now on. So I think when you limit your growth by saying, we're only going to produce a certain number of cars, and as you know, the market rewards both growth and productivity. You got to do walk and chew gum. You've got to grow and you've got to grow. The bottom line, they don't want to get rid of the scarcity of the cars, so they're looking for other revenue streams that'll provide some of that growth.
Phil Muscatello: And Ferrari has an interesting policy on EVs, don't they?
John Connolly: Which is we really don't want to do them, but maybe that's where the market's going. So we talked about Ferrari share price being down, down for a couple of reasons. One, the market thought they weren't growing fast enough. You know, their target, they had a fantastic year, sorry, don't get me wrong. But the market felt, you know, were they growing fast enough generally? And the second thing they worried about was, was Ferrari are going to produce a thing called an EV called the Luci Light in Italian, launching in Rome, and four doors, four seats, over 1,000 horsepower, which is more than you have in your Corolla and I have in my Holden V8U, they say they have a target of 20% electric by 2030. The market is quite cautious on this because what they think Is a, do Ferrari buyers really want a silent car that doesn't have all the mystique that you get from these complex engines that you have? You know, lots of people make EVs, lots of people make luxury EVs. Uh, are they A, going to sell and B, are they going to have any, uh, after sale value? So I think that they're sort of hedging their bets on this, but the market is very nervous about the EV and I, uh, just don't think you're going to see them go the way. And don't forget. Sorry. The other thing is, don't forget luxury car makers like Porsche and others are slowly winding back from EV to hybrids, which are the sensible compromise these days in any car, to hybrids and of course their normal internal combustion engines. So that's a really difficult area for them to be. And I think that's why I'd be watching the share price where it is now, get past the war in Iran, that some of that uncertainty. But I think they're probably going to resolve those issues and the stock will be good buying. Plus I think it'll be helpful their cars, F1 cars will be more competitive this year and that'll be helpful for the brand as well. But you know, overall I'd say I wouldn't worry too much about EVs. I think they feel they have to do it, but it'll still be an internal combustion engine company.
Phil Muscatello: What do you think drivers from the 50s and the 60s say Stirling Moss or Fangio. How do you think they'd feel about the way the uh, Formula one has gone?
John Connolly: Well, I do know how some of them, Sterling Moss and I never dropped names, but he was a acquaintance of mine. I do know how some of those drivers feel. And what they're feeling is I think the same as a lot of fans are feeling this year is going to be 5050 electric, 5050 internal combustion
00:25:00
John Connolly: and quite complex. So you've got to recharge your battery and you can't do the old DRS passes anymore, all that sort of stuff. It really is changing the game and I don't think so. A, the drivers don't like it. B, fans I think are ah, going to less like it. But any driver, and I was listening to David Coulthardt two nights ago, they just feel all of that skill, all of that stuff about what you did just with the driver's skill and very good cars, has just about gone. So there's a classic pass Mika Rigonen did on Michael Schumacher and someone else at, uh, 320 kilometers an hour, that was just the most brilliant thing. You couldn't do that now. So, yes, the cars are safer and they should be. That's absolutely right. But the way they're moving, I think is going to put in question mark the sport itself, because remember, Formula E was meant to be. That's all electric F1 cars was meant to be. You know, where Formula One was going. Formula E is a waste of time, dead, gone. No one likes it. Who wants to go to the racetrack and be able to hear yourself talk? So these are, uh, very woke cars. The drivers don't like them. A lot of the action is going to go out, but still, great drivers will prevail, you know, no matter what the car is.
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Phil Muscatello: What is it about Italian brands? I mean, there's this mystique that the Italians somehow have managed to conjure up. I mean, you know, I've got a Vespa, you know, my wife said, you know, we've got to have a Vespa. We've got a La Pavoni coffee machine rather than a Breville. We went shopping for tiles the other day and they're saying, oh, you know, you don't want the Chinese tiles. Look at these. Compared to the Italian tiles. I mean, it's one of the great branding exercises of all time that people aren't even aware of, that they're being so emotionally manipulated.
John Connolly: I'm allowed to say on your broadcast, why Italian women so attractive compared to other.
Phil Muscatello: I think so we're not a very nationality.
John Connolly: So I think this is my favorite question because it gets to the heart of why Ferrari works as an investment. You know, a long time ago, there's a great guy called Theodore Levitt who wrote on marketing and he said, and you and I will probably be the only one who remember Kodak. But he said, kodak never advertise images, they always advertise memories. So when you're buying a product, any product, you're not buying a drill, you're buying a quarter inch, you know, hole to put a screw in. When you're buying a Italian brand, you're buying romance, right? I mean, Italy have done a sensational PR job over the years and you'd only have to look at Alfa Romeo to know their engineering is not always the greatest engineering. But the fact is you're buying romance at Trivia Fountain, you know, all of that sort of stuff. Kawasaki motorcycle, like ultimate engineering, just fantastic. You know, digital dash, starts all the time, never breaks down, all of that sort of stuff, you know. The Vespa is a machine built on heritage. You don't ride it to get anywhere fast. You write it because of the feeling it gives you. You know, you're somewhere while you're commuting and you're seeing other someone who are attractive, men and women. And you could be driving in your Vespa in Rome. So, uh, the same, you know, with. Why would you buy La Pavoni or another Italian? Because the Breville's a kitchen appliance, really good, lasts forever. They're fantastic. Sits on the counter next to your Breville toaster. But the Pavoni is a chrome sculpture, right? You could have it in the Museum of Modern, um, Art. You know, it goes along with all those paintings. You've got Villagnac, you know, room by Picasso and all the rest of them. You know, a Breville gives you a beverage, Bovoni gives you a challenge. You
00:30:00
John Connolly: know, you feel like a God when you've made it actually work. So I think that's, uh, you know, that's what Italy is all about. You're buying the gap between what it costs you to own or buy and what it means to you. The feeling you get from driving a Porsche, a Ferrari, you know, uh, even an Alfa Romeo when they go that feeling to get is what. And what it says about you as a Ferrari owner compared to a Toyota owner.
Phil Muscatello: So we all know that governments like to regulate all over the world. How do you see Ferrari balancing their heritage with possible regulations are going to be coming up over the next few years?
John Connolly: Well, I think a, you've got to go back to what you said. This is Italy, right? Uh, where they make Ferrari. If you think the Italian government is going to do anything that would stop Ferraris being made as they are now, then you're dreaming, right? So Ferrari will be the last combustion car standing if that's the case. But I think, you know, eventually, sometime in the future, and I hate EVs, but sometime in the future will brass cars, which are, uh, those original cars from the 1900s, you know, that do the Brighton run. They'll keep running forever. And I think there'll be internal combustion cars, you know, that will be like that. They'll be at shows, you'll be able to drive them on a track, you'll probably be able to drive them on the road, but, you know, somehow they're going to keep going through. And I think the thing to bear in mind, with any luxury good, very scarce luxury goods, you're getting richer and richer people and richer and richer people are going to want something that no other people can have or a very few others. They want to feel part of an exclusive club. So I don't see. And even in Australia, we've got so many internal combustion cars, the government stuffed up the rollout to electric. You know, electric cars are fine if you stay in your own postcode, but want to drive them around Australia, want to drive anywhere else, it's hard to do. So we're going to have internal combustion cars for a long time. You know, people are paying 1.5 million for a Holden Ute, so that tells you they're not. These are smart people, they're not going to spend 1.5 million on a thing that's going to be regulated out of existence. So, no, I think they've got, you know, scarcity, the economics of scarcity, luxury goods. I think, you know, they've got a fine future.
Phil Muscatello: Are you aware of any kind of securitization that's happening in this space for classic collectible cars? I mean, I've heard you can buy a product that allows you to invest in fine wines, for example. Are you aware of this?
John Connolly: Yeah, there's quite a few. In fact, there's a index. One of them runs an index that looks at classic car values and has got ETFs on the values of classic cars. But you can certainly buy. Well, sorry, there's a number of ways of doing it, particularly the us, you can join a car club. And in the uk, where there's a range of cars, including Ferraris, Lamborghinis, all those things, and you get the use of a car for a day, whatever your car of choice is, that's one way. Second way is, yes, you can buy a share in something like a classic Ferrari. Now, I don't think you get to drive it for that, but you get to share in the appreciation of the car over a period of time. I would go for the Classic Car Club because. And I know I have some friends here who owns shares in the UK and will go to the UK a couple of times a year to drive Ferrari or drive a Lamborghini or whatever. So, I mean, there's a friend of mine who will remain nameless, had an awful fight with his wife, ended up winning because he wanted his Ferrari in the living room. So in the middle of the living room is a Ferrari, which for him is, like, better than the view of, you know, Sydney Harbour. But they're still together, so that's a good thing.
Phil Muscatello: But what could she possibly object to?
John Connolly: You? And I know that perfectly. I think he wanted the Italian woman driving it. Ah, that might have been the problem. But no, no. So, except I think these things are built to be driven. And you get the guys that own these 250 GTR, so
00:35:00
John Connolly: $60 million cars actually racing them, you know, at Goodwood. So that, to me, is what they're built for. They're built to race. You know, it's all right to own one, have it in your garage, but at least drive it, even if it's around the road. Ultimately, if you can, and you can afford it, to race it is just a dream come true, you know.
Phil Muscatello: So, John, just to wrap things up, is writing your column in the weekend Australian, your dream come true?
John Connolly: Well, my dream come true at my age is still competitively motor racing and rallying. Competitively. But, uh, yeah, so for 15 years, I wrote about sailing for the Financial Review because I was ocean racing. And then when I stopped that and work, travel got too much for me, I stopped. I wanted to go back. And the Financial Review said, we want you to write sailing in. I said, no, I want to write about cars again. So, look, it is my dream come true. As you probably know, I think I'm the only motoring journalist in the world that pays for everything I do. So no one offers me cars to drive because if they do, I'll say, sure, but, you know, we'll do a donation to charity equivalent to if I rented it. But no, and it's a wonderful. You know, cars are just wonderful. Racing and rallying are just great sports, great people. And, you know, there's such a big part. You know, everyone talks about architecture and how important it is. There's more cars on the street that form part of our urban, uh, and rural environment than there are buildings, you know, and no one actually thinks about each car, no matter how shit it is, actually started off as a clay model that some sculptor created. So they're not just good for petrol heads like you and me. They're actually an important part of our urban and less urban landscape. So, yeah, no, it's great privilege.
Phil Muscatello: I think I was actually shocked because when, um, we moved up to the Sunshine coast in Queensland 18 months ago, and I'm actually shocked at the number of classic cars there are up on the road. I think it's. I think it's also. And there's a hill climb circuit, you know, a couple of kilometers away from me. And I, uh, think it's just. Maybe it's part of the. Because you don't need a rego check in Queensland when you register your vehicle?
John Connolly: Well, no, I. I think it's also. There's a lot of wealthy people. It's a big classic car area. So that Noosa concourse has become a really serious event. The racetrack's there. It's a petrol head heaven. Serious race tracks owned by individuals, most of them. Right. And there's a great mix of sort of European classics plus Australian classics and Australian muscle cars.
Phil Muscatello: Yeah.
John Connolly: I do a race around the town at Winton once a year. You actually drive a car fast through the town, which is just fantastic. Population 300, I should say. But you see everything there from Ferraris to classic Holdens to classic Minis. It's all there. So I think there's something about Queensland which. And I might, uh. I don't think it's just the Regio because there's a lot of money going to these cars that is just. It becomes a, you know, wonderful car heaven up there. So you're in the right place, Phil.
Phil Muscatello: Fantastic. Okay. John Connolly, thank you very much for joining me today. It's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you.
John Connolly: Thank you, Phil. See you on the market.
Phil Muscatello: Thanks for listening to Shares for Beginners. You can find more@sharesforbeginners.com if you enjoy listening, please take a moment to rate or review in your podcast player or tell a friend who might want to learn more about investing for their future.
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