RACHEL WATERHOUSE | Australian Shareholders' Association
RACHEL WATERHOUSE | Australian Shareholders' Association
I had the privilege of catching up with Rachel Waterhouse, the CEO of the Australian Shareholders' Association (ASA) in this episode about a couple of the bigger stories in this current AGM season. We discussed some intriguing developments in the world of investing and corporate governance.
Follow the link below to find out how you can allocate your proxy for companies that you own to the ASA
Endeavour (ASX:EDV) – A Goliath in Retail Drinks
Endeavour stands as the largest retail drinks business in Australia. It boasts a vast portfolio of licensed hotels, totaling 1,701 stores and 354 hotels. Not to mention over 12,700 gaming machines and a growing collection of wineries. This size and scale undoubtedly provide Endeavour with a competitive edge, but they also come with significant challenges and responsibilities.
One critical aspect we touched on in our conversation with Rachel Waterhouse is the pivotal role of Responsible Service of Gambling and Alcohol in Endeavour's operations. The establishment of the Darwin Community Advisory Committee in FY22, aimed at enhancing their partnership with the Larrakia Nation, brings cultural engagement and store patrols, fostering a positive change for Darwin.
However, not all news is rosy. We discussed the tragic death of an employee in Darwin. While the CEO, the MD of BWS, and another senior executive volunteered a 5% reduction of their final Short-Term Incentive (STI) as a mark of respect, ASA raised concerns about the adequacy of this gesture in light of the tragic loss.
Board Disagreements and the Election of William Wavish
On the board level, we delved into disagreements, particularly regarding the addition of an extra board seat. ASA expressed their stance against the election of William Wavish and their reasons for doing so.
Qantas (ASX:QAN) – The Phoenix that Faces Scrutiny
Shifting our focus to Qantas, Rachel Waterhouse shared some intriguing observations. While Qantas seemed to rise from the pandemic year from a financial standpoint, they have faced a torrent of criticism over various matters. These include customer service issues, lost bags, cancellations, and even controversies like the blockage of Qatar's access to landing rights, allegations from the ACCC, and a clunky frequent flyer redemption system.
Qantas recognizes the importance of its upcoming AGM as an opportunity for shareholders to express their frustrations with past events. ASA is particularly interested in the board's decision to allow Alan Joyce to sell 90% of his stock on June 1, 2023, and we're here to share what we found out.
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The key thing that we look to is long-term hurdles that an executive, A CEO should be rewarded over four years. And we do see with some companies shorter term to that, but it should be able to be clawed back. So if there's misconduct or certain behaviors that get found out later, that level of remuneration should be able to be taken back. So it's really around financial performance, but you want to have the right cultural behaviors embedded into an organization And that comes from the top, that comes from the CEO at the board.
G'day And. welcome back to Shares for Beginners. I'm Phil Muscatello where Wright smack bang in the middle of AGM season, which means that the Australian Shareholders Association is shirt fronting the boards of nearly 200 and Australia's largest listed companies on behalf of small retail Shareholders. Joining me today is Rachel Waterhouse G'day, Rachel
Rachel (1m 8s):
Phil (1m 9s):
Rachel. Waterhouse is the CEO of the Australian Shareholders. Association. We're catching up about a couple of upcoming AGMs and I just wanna point out that we're recording on Friday, October 20. This episode will be live on Wednesday, October 25. So hopefully there won't be too many more surprises or challenges. How are the challenges going at the moment? Yeah, well you were just saying off, they're a bit tired. I could imagine.
Rachel (1m 34s):
I think a lot of our volunteers are as well. We, I think we've attended about 30 AGMs, but we do get to a point where there's 30 a week. It's like an army of volunteers working together closely and they're all retail Shareholders, assessing companies their performance and thinking through how us as retail Shareholders should vote.
Phil (1m 56s):
Yeah, and these are all expressed in terms of voting intentions, aren't they? I mean we're basing this interview on the, let's just call 'em the vi's from now on the vi's for the Endeavor Group and for Qantas, which I'm looking forward to talking about. So these vi's are put together by the Association to address the issues that are of interest to the Association. Is that the case? Yeah,
Rachel (2m 18s):
They are. So we do monitor about 200 ASX companies over the entire year and a group of volunteers are assessing companies and putting these voting intentions and we'll say Yes vi's together. And they do appear on our website under upcoming AGMs so anyone can come onto the website. if you are invested in a company and you know there's an AGM coming up, you can have a look at the voting intentions and you can also give the Australian Shareholders Association your proxy because together we are really powerful. If retail Shareholders give their proxy slash their vote to the Australian Shareholders Association, we can represent all retail Shareholders.
Rachel (2m 60s):
So it's very important to do that. And I also recommend that everyone attend AGMs as much as possible too.
Phil (3m 7s):
Well, because they're really instructional, aren't they? They're really educational in terms of finding out what the company's actually doing. It's a shortcut for people to actually understand the people behind the business and what they're actually doing and the strategies and the long-term focus, isn't it?
Rachel (3m 20s):
Yeah. So you can hear about their strategy, their performance directly from them. Obviously you've got the annual report beforehand, you can ask questions, but sometimes even if you don't feel comfortable asking the question, you'll hear your Australian Shareholders Association representative ask good questions. And also other retail Shareholders stand up. I was at an AGM just yesterday and the questions that were being asked were really good questions coming from the floor and the board seemed to be really listening to the Shareholders, which is what we wanna see.
Phil (3m 52s):
So the blog post of this episode, I'll put a link so that listeners can download the, the voting intentions, the vi's about the two companies that we're talking about. So let's get into it now we're gonna have a look at the Endeavor Group, which is ASX code EDV. And it's the largest retail drinks business in Australia. And the largest portfolio of licensed hotels with 1,701 stores, 354 hotels, over 12,700 gaming machines and a growing portfolio of wineries. The size and, and I'm quoting here, this is from the vi's of the Association, the size and scale of this business gives them an edge, but also creates challenges and responsibilities. And their AGM is Tuesday, the 31st of October.
Phil (4m 34s):
So responsible service of gambling and alcohol would seem to be pivotal to endeavors operations.
Rachel (4m 40s):
Yes, yes it is. So it's an interesting business and it has been performing quite well and it's, its second year of performance, although if you do look at the share price, the share price has fallen as at this point this year, about 15%.
Phil (4m 54s):
Yeah, it's a terrible performance of the share price, isn't it?
Rachel (4m 58s):
Yeah, it is. It's disappointing for Shareholders and And. that may be where some of the queries around the governance and around who should be on the board are, are coming from,
Phil (5m 8s):
But they seem to be taking steps in the right direction in terms of the responsible service of gambling and alcohol because they really, I mean if they're, their business is about drinking and gambling and we know what the downside of both of those can be, they've really gotta take that seriously. And I just wanted to point out that, that one of their initiatives is the establishment of the Darwin Community Advisory Committee in F Y 22, which has helped develop a partnership with the Larke Nation, providing cultural engagement and patrols of stores and hopefully a positive change for Darwin.
Rachel (5m 38s):
Yeah, as far as looking at the annual report and what they have done, we have commented around the ESG side, that's the environmental, social and governance, how they're making the right steps forward and engaging with the community around challenges is really important, especially when you're running an organization that has gambling and alcohol within it. So we do see that the steps they're making forward here are great.
Phil (6m 4s):
Do members come to you with positions on this business?
Rachel (6m 7s):
As far as, I would probably say generally our members do come to us and also non-members come to us with their thoughts on company performance. And I can't say though that I have had a lot of members come to us about Endeavor, but as we move on to talk about Qantas, we definitely have a lot of members that have come to us about Qantas. So that's really important. So always say to our members to engage with us because we're representing retail Shareholders. And how we do that is about listening and also our volunteers listening to their colleagues
Phil (6m 42s):
Tell us about the death of an employee in Darwin. And this is one of the issues that's being brought up by the Association and about the CEO and the MD of B W s and another senior executive who have volunteered a reduction of 5% of their final short term incentive, which is their pay basically, or on top of their pay in deference to the death. ASA doesn't feel that this is commensurate with the seriousness of that death.
Rachel (7m 9s):
Yeah, it's a very sad situation of a staff member that was attacked and and passed away. Following that, we do feel that the 5% is not enough for the situation. And there has been an independent review and it's currently going through the courts. So there's, there's some, some questions around process there and how staff are kept secure and safe in their roles.
Phil (7m 37s):
But there were protocols which weren't followed. Is that the case?
Rachel (7m 41s):
There were protocols that may not have been followed. It is going through a court case as far as the the person that was responsible for it. But that's the situation. And you know, that is the concern for us is our processes that are in place being followed and how do they ensure that all of their employees are are safe.
Phil (8m 2s):
And there's been a lot of board disagreement about the extra board seat. And this is about the election of William Wavish? Is that how you pronounce it? Wavish Wavish,
Rachel (8m 12s):
I, I believe so, yes.
Phil (8m 14s):
One of those. And why the ASA doesn't support the election of him to the board?
Rachel (8m 20s):
Yeah, we've, we do feel that one of the major Shareholders already effectively has a seat, which is in line with the, the company policy around board representation. And William Ish has not gone through the process that Endeavor had in place to find new directors. So there's a few different reasons for why we don't support him, but we will be voting against his nomination.
Phil (8m 47s):
And at this point, I just wanted to talk about proxy advice firms. 'cause I saw an article in the Australian today and the Association seems to be lumped in with all of the proxy advice firms. What are proxy advisors?
Rachel (8m 60s):
Yeah, proxy advisors. We do see ourselves as different, but we often do get lumped in as far as the need.
Phil (9m 6s):
Yeah, I thought, I thought that, I thought there was that lumping in going and then, well you're not really a proxy advice firm because they're, they're, they're got quite a different charter, don't they? Yeah,
Rachel (9m 13s):
Definitely. So a proxy advisor would often look, they're looking at companies in a similar way to us and they have guidelines as well of how they end up voting, but they're providing a service to institutional clients. Sometimes it's superannuation funds to help them make a decision. And those companies that are invested make a decision based on the advice. They don't always go with it, but it's some information to support them with their decision making. We are quite different because we're providing voting intentions for retail Shareholders. So people that have got small shareholdings, some people have large shareholdings, but they're put together by other retail Shareholders.
Rachel (9m 57s):
So retail Shareholders helping other retail Shareholders. We're an Association, we're a not-for-profit that's been around since the 1960s and we're protecting retail Shareholders. So very different. But we do get clumped in together.
Phil (10m 11s):
Okay. Let's get onto Qantas. Oh, this is going to be fun. So I'm just gonna give you a couple of quotes. Now. The vi's from the ASA, this is a quote directly, Qantas has seemingly risen from the pandemic year, like a phoenix, at least from a financial point of view. But over the past year, the flying kangaroo has been hit with a torrent of criticism over a series of matters such as letting customers down, lost baggers, cancellations, blockage of qatar's, access to landing rights, a triple C'S allegations and overly clunky frequent flyer redemption system. Plenty to talk about there. And I just noticed that there were Qantas this morning issued a statement which begins, we know this, AGM will be an important opportunity for Shareholders to express their frustration with past events.
Phil (10m 60s):
Yeah, a bit of an understatement, isn't it? Yeah.
Rachel (11m 2s):
Although it is good to see them recognizing it 'cause it has taken a while to be able to take accountability and recognize how Shareholders are feeling. It's not just Shareholders, it's consumers as well. And it's the public sentiment around that long list of things that have happened over a period of time. So, it is going to be an interesting AGM, it's on the 3rd of November and we were talking about proxies and giving your proxy before. We would recommend that anyone listening that has Qantas Shares does provide their proxy to the Australian Shareholders Association. It did take the chair a while to actually decide to step down or announce his resignation, but it's a long resignation of about a year.
Phil (11m 48s):
That's Richard Goyer, isn't it?
Rachel (11m 50s):
Yeah, so Richard Goyer took a while, did talk about the support that he had of Shareholders at the time. And you know, we weren't hearing that from retail Shareholders, there was no one communicating with us that said that, you know, they had the support and they wanted the chair to stay. It was more around board renewal being required and accountability for that long list as far as, you know, illegally sucking baggage handlers, allegedly selling canceled flights. So a long list of, of things of concern and, and fines and compensation that will need to be paid. And, and the other thing is that assets, as far as the the planes themselves are, are aging and there hasn't been a lot of investment put into them.
Phil (12m 37s):
And so a lot of this has also led to the early departure of Alan Joyce as well, hasn't it?
Rachel (12m 41s):
Yes, it has. So we were pretty disappointed to see that he was able to sell 90% of his Shares the day before the ACCC announced they were taking high court action about allegedly selling canceled flights. And, and really then the question is, what did the board know? We assume that the board knew And that was a risk, and why was he allowed to effectively get that cash And? That's not good governance.
Phil (13m 10s):
And it was also right at the point where Qantas was an all time high share price and it's declined significantly since then as well. So, it doesn't look really pretty in retrospect, does it?
Rachel (13m 20s):
No, it doesn't because the net underlying profit was announced, which was nearly $2.5 billion. So there would've been a lot of retail investors really satisfied at that point in time. And then since then, and he did sell at a high, it's dropped about 20% the Shares.
Phil (13m 37s):
Okay. But it, it just doesn't look very good to have that situation with the CEO running away and cashing in his chips at that point, does it?
Rachel (13m 45s):
No, it doesn't look good. And there's also public perception of the Qatar inquiry and a request for the previous CEO to speak at it and, and he didn't appear. So I think there's a few challenges there. Really what we need is we need to have a strong capable board and CEO that can turn the business around and build that trust back into the brand and organization
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Phil (14m 31s):
So you, you referred to the capital position just a little while ago. I just wanted to talk about the wisdom of undertaking of buyback, which they're proposing a buyback given the need for cash in coming years to renew the fleet, pay fines and compensation and pay the additional costs to regain reputation and improve customer experience. Tell me about that.
Rachel (14m 51s):
Yeah, so the company's looking at buying back up to 200 million Shares and the company has indicated this is to reward the loyal Shareholders who contributed 1.4 billion to support the company through covid. We just think that there's more investment required in the fleet, really. And we don't support a buyback at this stage. Really need to make sure that Qantas is focused on the right things, And that is around building the trust, making sure they've got a strong board, and yeah, building that reputation going forward
Phil (15m 23s):
Because generally Shareholders would support buybacks, but generally it's only when there's plenty of cash on the balance sheet and no upcoming costs.
Rachel (15m 32s):
Yeah, there's a lot of unknowns. Say, look, there's knowns, there's fines potentially coming their way. There's some that have been confirmed and some that Mabb may come their way. And there's also that compensation as well to baggage handlers and cleaners. So a lot of cost coming qantas's way. And they've also got a project in place to make sure that customer service is increase. And again, there's a cost for that too.
Phil (15m 58s):
Hmm. And then speaking about the cost of regaining reputation, the association's voting against the reappointment of Todd Sampson, who's well known as a marketing guru, and it's about his involvement in decisions that affected the company's reputation. So adversely given his, well his supposed expertise.
Rachel (16m 17s):
Yeah, so, so he comes to, well he's been on the board for some time, so he has accountability for what's happened. The challenge often for retail Shareholders is we don't know what happens behind closed doors and we don't know what conversations were happening, but ultimately brand is a key issue. He is at the board with no accounting or legal background, so really he's there for brand reputation and marketing And. that is the biggest challenge that Qantas is facing at the moment. So we can't support his reelection.
Phil (16m 47s):
I was really interested to see you being quoted in the newspaper this morning and it's about the Association being suspicious of Qantas having ex public servants on the board. Why is that? Yeah,
Rachel (16m 59s):
We're just wonder whether it's required as far as a key board skill. I mean public affairs, And, that skillset can sit in the management team. Why does it have to be a key board member? And it does seem like it's a replacement of that skillset on the board. And I guess what's been public around the influence potentially of how Qantas has maybe gone around about things, we just say that we don't think that's required at the board level. So it's probably more of a management skill as far as having strong relationships with the government. And
Phil (17m 35s):
Is it about that, is it about getting some sweetheart deals that might influence the government as well by having people who've already got contacts in executive government
Rachel (17m 44s):
That may potentially be, you know, how they've looked at it, but we just don't think that that's required at the board level. you know, we really need a strong board that's going to turn around the organization and the relationships with government are important for a lot of organizations, but that often sit in the management level.
Phil (18m 3s):
Okay. So the big one is the remuneration report at an AGM. Why is the ASA voting against the remuneration report and why is this such an important issue?
Rachel (18m 14s):
Well, I think a lot of people, whether you've got shareholding of Qantas, wouldn't support the remuneration and what's being put forward. We found a lot of confusion around the clawbacks in the annual report. Now the annual report was delayed about two weeks on when we thought it would've come out. And we have quite a lot of commentary. So it's quite detailed. I probably won't go into all of it around the short term and the long term incentives, but ultimately remuneration that is around rewarding executives. And given the situation that Qantas is in, do they really need to have that level of reward? And you know, you've got a CEO that's taken a big paycheck and there's a lot of questions around processes and also caught action that's happening.
Rachel (19m 3s):
So that's probably at a high level, we just can't support it. And it looks like there are other organizations out there as well that can't support the remuneration plan for this year.
Phil (19m 14s):
And one of the main parts of a remuneration report is the short-term incentives or the STIs and the lti. What's the Association policy on those?
Rachel (19m 23s):
Yeah, so we usually in general look to having a fixed income. So we, we focus on the CEO often. So we look at the fixed income that they get and then a short term incentive. A short term incentive is around, it's often split between cash and equities fairly equally. That can sometimes be, can change. And that's around getting their short term incentives. So that would be the strategic plan, whatever is in that strategic plan for one year, have they achieved it? There's often a scorecard that has a lot of detail sitting in it. So Qantas, as an example, has a focus on the customer And that has increased as a percentage over time and then they have a long-term plan.
Rachel (20m 8s):
The key thing that we look to is long-term hurdles that an executive, A CEO should be rewarded over four years. And we do see with some companies shorter term to that, but it should be able to be clawed back. So if there's misconduct or certain behaviors that get found out later, that level of remuneration should be able to be taken back. So it's really around financial performance, but you wanna have the right cultural behaviors embedded into an organization, And, that comes from the top, that comes from the CEO and the board.
Phil (20m 43s):
What do you think the chances are of this remuneration report being voted down? I
Rachel (20m 47s):
Think it's extremely high that it will be voted down. There's a lot of disappointment as far as the performance of Qantas. I mean, you know, you look back a couple of months when there were announcements made about how well it had performed and then to find out a lot of extra information that's come to hand and fines and compensation and behaviors and then you do go, well, remuneration, it doesn't seem right. So, you know, you can read the voting intention for the detail around, you know, why we're saying what we're saying, but we are voting against most of the agenda for the Qantas AGM. And
Phil (21m 23s):
What happens if it gets voted down?
Rachel (21m 25s):
Yeah, so when a remuneration report gets voted down, there'll be a strike. And so you need 25% of those voting that have to vote against it. And then that would be considered a strike, a first strike. And then the following year, if there's another vote down of the remuneration report, that's the second strike. And then what happens is the board needs to change. And so that's often a challenge for us when a company gets to a second strike because you're trying to get a balance of wanting to make sure there's enough corporate history in an organization and you know, if there's a second strike, it's often for very good reasons and it's what retail Shareholders think. But to clear out the entire board can be a challenge.
Rachel (22m 8s):
So again, hopefully companies are listening and they're thinking about what's right and what's fair so that they don't get a strike. But there are companies that get a strike and when they get a strike, they really need to think deep and hard around what they need to change for the following year.
Phil (22m 24s):
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Rachel (23m 34s):
Yeah, it goes back to what's already in place. So what's being put forward obviously can't happen. So what's already in place would need to be there. But yeah, you just, they need to really, A lot of companies look to other organizations in the same industry. They look to how others are rewarded and they should be thinking not only financial performance but other things around satisfaction. And so customer satisfaction is core because if you keep your customer satisfied and you're probably gonna have a really good business.
Phil (24m 4s):
So what have been some of the highlights of feedback from some of the members
Rachel (24m 8s):
Just in general or around the AGM season so far?
Phil (24m 11s):
No, in general. In general.
Rachel (24m 12s):
Yeah. So I think our members are quite excited about AGM season and it's really nice when you get out there to see them. Actually yesterday was the ASX AGM and we had this lovely lady come into our office and she said I was just at the ASX AGM, she'd walked up, you know, I think it's about a 15 minute walk to become a member. So that was actually a highlight for us and the team yesterday, just to see how engaged people can get and how those that aren't yet members can see what our members are doing and making a difference and then think I need to join that Association. We do also have a lot of communication around Qantas and very aligned sometimes with retail Shareholders you can have different perspectives, which is normal in any group of people, but very aligned, I would say Qantas.
Rachel (25m 6s):
We've, throughout this whole process of what they thought should happen, that the chair should step down how they feel about certain directors that are being put forward. But yeah, so I'd say our, this is the time of the year where our retail Shareholders get really engaged and lots of AGMs. Lots of AGMs to attend and it's important to go out there and attend them and and meet other retail Shareholders
Phil (25m 32s):
And it's a good chance. I'm sure they're, they're looking forward to shaking their fists at the board, aren't they?
Rachel (25m 37s):
Yeah, but it's important to do that. It's really important to also recognize when boards and management make the right level of change. So you know, you can't always get the stick out. Sometimes you need the carrot as well and you need to recognize where changes happen. There are examples where our people have spoken to boards and boards have listened and they've changed their remuneration report and they've changed things and they have listened. And I spoke at an AGM yesterday about why it's not a hybrid AG M, so there was a webcast and a physical, but if you were online you couldn't actually vote. And they said they would definitely think about it for next year and engage with us.
Rachel (26m 17s):
So that's the type of conversation you wanna have and you really wanna have change happening.
Phil (26m 22s):
Is that really the case? ASX didn't have an hybrid?
Rachel (26m 26s):
Oh that was a no, that was a different, no, no, that wasn't
Phil (26m 28s):
As S x, sorry.
Rachel (26m 29s):
Yeah, no, not ASX. It was the, the LAIES Corporation had a webcast. Wow. We have seen that in some instances and it's not what Shareholders want. And so we advocate for a hybrid, AGM, which is a face-to-face and an online where you can participate and ask questions and vote,
Phil (26m 49s):
Gee, just a webcast. That's so early two thousands isn't it? We've got the technology to do the hybrid And that that's really, that's one of the big things the Association has been asking for is all hybrid AGM since the, basically everything was online during covid.
Rachel (27m 2s):
Yeah, it does feel like we've gone backwards because technology is, has changed so much and you know, it is once a year so an organization should be able to run an event that is face-to-face and online at the same time. There are challenges and there's challenges around questions, but it should be able to be managed.
Phil (27m 23s):
Are there any other AGMs that you're looking forward to in this season?
Rachel (27m 27s):
Oh, So it so many, but I probably just keep it at these two for today. As I said before, there's about 30 a week, so I think there's gonna be a lot of interest. And there is, you know, sometimes we do find when we're talking about that hybrid, that some companies may be going that webcast and face-to-face or face-to-face only to manage those that turn up and to manage activist investors potentially. So. But you know, if there are ways to make sure that an agenda and an AGM is, you know, followed in order and to engage appropriately with all investors.
Phil (28m 6s):
Okay, so there's two takeaways I wanna address now. One is of course how to assign proxies to the Association and also where to get the vi's. So tell us about, oh and the third of course is join the Association. It's a great Association we all should be members of.
Rachel (28m 21s):
Absolutely. So as far as proxies, you can either go in for each AGM and give your vote to Australian Shareholders Association. You do need to select us as a proxy and you do need to write our entire name, Australian, Shareholders Association. So no acronym to make sure that it does come to us.
Phil (28m 42s):
So that's when you get in the email, you get the report and your proxy form.
Rachel (28m 46s):
Yes. So you can do it, either you can do it in writing or you can do it digitally online. So depending on your preference and how you engage and how you vote, that's how you would do it. You can also put a standing proxy in with the share registries. So I've actually done that for a group of my shareholdings. I put that in And. that meant that when I went to the Telstra AGM this week, I didn't need to change my vote 'cause it already knew the Australian, Shareholders Association was my proxy. So that's one way if you just don't want to think about it or sometimes you forget about an AGM, put a standing proxy in. We've got information on our website and you can always contact the organization and, and we will help you with that.
Rachel (29m 29s):
And then the other one is the voting intentions. You can find them on our website Strain Shareholders Association under upcoming AGMs. And actually it's a really good way to just check what AGMs are coming up and put it in your diary because we have a long list that takes you through to December of AGMs that are coming up. You just click on the company, you can see where the AGM is happening, you can click on the voting intention. We also do AGM reports afterwards if you wanna have a bit of detail of what happened. The the third one is, yeah, become a member because we are representing retail Shareholders and most people have Shares in some form or way, or you may have an ETF, but you become part of a community and you really can learn from each other.
Rachel (30m 17s):
And that's important. We have a lot of member meetings, we have virtual ways of engaging if you're just too busy to get to a physical member meeting. A lot of our members talk about that being one of the most valued parts of being a member is what you can learn from each other. And I've attended quite a lot of member meetings and you learn from the room. So there was one example where I went to a member meeting and everyone brought along their strategy or not brought it along, talked about it and it was interesting to hear how everyone had a different approach so you can learn from others. It's not about, you know, you can talk about what you're thinking about, but it's how you get educated is learning from each other and having those conversations.
Phil (31m 2s):
Fantastic. And like I said, I'll be putting the Qantas and the Endeavor voting intentions as a download as well on the blog post for this episode, which will be linked in the the show notes. Rachel, it's always great to catch up.
Rachel (31m 14s):
Yeah, it is. And thank you so much for the opportunity to have a chat.
Phil (31m 18s):
Rachel, thank you very much for coming on.
Chloe (31m 20s):
Thanks for listening to Shares. for Beginners. You can find more at Shares for Beginners dot com. if you enjoy listening, please take a moment to rate or review in your podcast player or tell a friend who might want to learn more about investing for their future.
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