· Podcast Episodes
Vanessa Stoykov - Let's Get Real About Money

What did you learn about money growing up? Is there way of breaking out of your mindset to create financial freedom? Vanessa Stoykov from Evolution Media dedicates her time to developing stories and conversations that make finance easier to understand, trust and engage with. She wants to help everyday Australians unlearn limiting beliefs about money so they can make better financial decisions that improve their entire life.

“I've looked at this a lot about what is this moment that you create for people that makes them take control of themselves. And I'm calling it a financial flashpoint. If I can get people to a financial flashpoint, which is a chemical reaction where people just make rapid change, then they're on their way. And your financial journey is a long one. And maybe I can give you another flashpoint in five years or never again, but that's my aim: to give people as many financial flashpoints to take control themselves.”

Vanessa Stoykov in the Shares for Beginners' studio complex

Vanessa Stoykov is on a mission to help Australians get real about money. With over two decades of experience in the wealth creation space, Vanessa knows how important it is to have courageous conversations in order to achieve financial freedom. 

From her 22-year history of owning a financial services education-focused media business, Evolution Media Group, Vanessa has a deep understanding of the finance world and has the unique ability to communicate this in a way that everyday people can understand. 

Through storytelling, and creating engaging and educational content without the jargon, Vanessa helps Australians make better money decisions. 

She is also the Founder of NMP Education, an award-winning television producer and an author. 

Vanessa regularly appears in the media outlets such as, Sydney Morning Herald, BC and The Today Show as a financial educator. 

Together with her creative husband Paul, Vanessa has 3 sons and knows firsthand the importance of telling money stories that matter.



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G'day and welcome back to Shares for Beginners. I'm Phil Muscatello. Time is everyone's master. You can't afford to wait until it's too late. That's a quote from today's guest, Vanessa Stoykov. Hello, Vanessa.

Vanessa (35s):


Phil (36s):

Welcome. Thanks very much for dropping in.

Vanessa (37s):

Thanks for having me

Phil (39s):

Now, Vanessa is on a mission to help Australians get real about money. She knows the importance of having courageous conversations about making better money decisions to achieve financial freedom. Your catch cry is let's get real about money. Aren't people real about money as it is? It seems to be the realest thing there is.

Vanessa (57s):

Yeah, it is pretty real, isn't it? Particularly after COVID

Phil (1m 3s):

Mighty real.

Vanessa (1m 4s):

Yeah, surreal at times, but it's about really looking at the situation you're in and being honest about it. Let's get real, no matter whether you've got you, don't you want to learn how you'll never afford a property. You're actually sitting on a gold mine, but you know, you don't want to sell your house anyway. There's a whole bunch of stuff going on under the surface for people and it's just time to get real and get it out in the open so we can discuss it and figure out the best way forward.

Phil (1m 28s):

So you don't think that people are used to discussing money or there's a taboo about discussing money,

Vanessa (1m 34s):

Money and sex are the two things you shouldn't bring up in polite conversation, you know?

Phil (1m 39s):

I wasn't going to bring it up right now, Vanessa.

Vanessa (1m 42s):

But you know, no, it's not polite. I mean, people want to infer they look like money. You wouldn't have designer brands and cars and everything else if it didn't represent what money could bring. But at the same time, people have considered it pretty impolite conversation to talk about what you earn and parents have considered it pretty impolite for their kids to ask questions about money and what they have. And that's like a real missed opportunity to give your kids financial literacy early on. So there's a whole bunch of conversations I want people to open up around money that are more around education and getting us ahead as individuals and as families. Because at the end of the day, you can only look after your own family.

Vanessa (2m 23s):

I mean, we can be philanthropic and we hope to be, if you do well with money, you can be. Otherwise you can donate your time, which you know, is probably even harder to do and more admirable. But at the end of the day, money gives you choices and money gives you freedom. And a lot of sad stories and families are around people who've grown up hard luck or, you know, money and domestic violence go hand in hand, financial pressure, financial wellbeing is just really important. So, you know, that's what I'm about. I started as a finance journo and then quickly just realized I really liked the people in financial services because they were so smart, but they were just so shit at talking about what they did that I didn't understand it.

Vanessa (3m 6s):

And then, you know, that set about a lifelong mission for me to go, "Okay, why I can't real people understand this stuff?" It feels like we're keeping people out. And you know, that's my mission, just to get people to ignite that spark to go, "I can learn this. I can understand this. I can have control of my own future."

Phil (3m 24s):

And you think this would be something that would be available in the school system as well. That at least kids would learn at school about this, but they're not even being taught that at school, are they?

Vanessa (3m 34s):

It's a real missed opportunity. And I know Scott Pape, The Barefoot Investor, who, you know, has done incredibly well with his instructional book on money, is really working now to get financial literacy in schools. And I have no doubt with his influence, things will change and others who are doing good work. I know a lot of things actually that are running through schools that are good. So I think we'll see increased literacy from our kids. But at the end of the day, your financial attitude comes from your family unit. Whether you'd like to think so or not. You know, I talk a lot about unlearning money or unlearning bad habits. How do we unlearn something we've learned? Well, where did you learn it from? So look back in time and you can kind of figure out around your attitudes to money and where you got them.

Phil (4m 16s):

So tell us about where you grew up and how you first started your journey in learning about money in Gunnedah, I believe?

Vanessa (4m 25s):

Gunnedah country girl. My dad was an immigrant from Serbia, so he was a fitter and turner. And he worked in the coal mines in Gunnedah. And my mom was a nurses aide but she stayed home. Like it was a very idyllic childhood growing up in Gunnedah, it was ride your bike to your friend, literally catch tadpoles, climb Porcupine Hill, all those things. So I really had an ideal childhood, but the thing about the childhood at the time was no one really had much more than anyone else In a small town like that back in the day, I'm 48 now so we're going back some way. And that made you feel like you had equal opportunity. And I think that's a really hard thing to replicate for your kids now because there is such a big divide and social media demonstrates that so quickly that it's very hard to give people that feeling of optimism around their future.

Vanessa (5m 14s):

If they are coming from not much financially and then they can see others have so much,

Phil (5m 19s):

And they can compare themselves to other people.

Vanessa (5m 21s):


Phil (5m 21s):

So how did you find your niche financial journalism and your media business? Where did that all start?

Vanessa (5m 27s):

Well, to be honest, it was a happy accident. But I have to suspect it was kind of my purpose. I applied for jobs, 57 jobs I applied for when I finished my journalism degree in Canberra. And I applied for Trucking Weekly, Equestrian Weekly and Investor Weekly. And I got Investor Weekly. And so that was it. And I had told Greg Bright, the publisher at the time, that I wanted to be a foreign correspondent. So I'd be there sometime. But you know, I was leaving to do that. This was just my first journalism job. And he said, "Oh yeah, yeah, we'll see about that. How much do you want to earn?" And I said, "Ooh, I think I'd like to add about $40,000." Like that's what my dad had at the mine. And he was like, "Oh, okay.

Vanessa (6m 8s):

Yeah." And I was on 26 grand with him so 40 was like mega rich. But one, I learned how to be an entrepreneur. He was a one, two-man show running a publishing business. And that was a great start for me to look at how to get a business up from nothing. Two, I met a lot of incredibly important people because I was interviewing institutional investments specialists. I mean, that was crazy. 'Cause I'm literally, I remember so clearly sitting in this interview, not understanding a word these global fund managers were saying, but writing every word they said. And when I published the article, the guy wrote to me and he said, "You've got an innate understanding of what I said that really amazes me."

Vanessa (6m 51s):

And I'm like, "I pretty much just said what you said." And maybe that was the start of my success. But obviously so much happens in between when you're trying to commercialise a media and content business. Particularly in an industry like financial services, but I've never given up on it because it's my passion. I genuinely believe it is one of the few industries that has the power to transform lives as much as medicine and health. And I believe it because financial wellbeing and giving people dignity in retirement, like, that's a large contribution to society.

Phil (7m 25s):

Did you personally learn much about investing yourself from hanging out with these kinds of people?

Vanessa (7m 31s):

Well, you have no idea how little I learned. What a knob. I actually

Phil (7m 34s):

So you still don't even know what to buy?

Vanessa (7m 36s):

Well, I do know what to buy cause I pick it myself, but I give my money to fund managers. Like I've got some favourites and particularly one who I know the founder who died and then, I'm going to see, Allan Gray is the man's name. And he ran Allan Gray and Orbis. But Orbis is the business that I actually made a documentary of his life before he died and it was like a privilege. He was a contrarian investor. So I glibly say to you, I learned nothing. I've sat at the knee of Ken Nelson and Allan Gray and Bill Priest, we had him in our first serious investment series, from the states. Like, I've met people that are uber-billionaires and uber-brilliant but the people that blow me away, like Allan Gray was an inspiring man.

Vanessa (8m 22s):

Like he left a very large legacy of philanthropy, of, you know, funding people through infancy in South Africa, all the way to Harvard and then seed funding their businesses to create social entrepreneurs. People who have the intelligence to make that much money, have visions bigger than anyone I've seen. And that's incredibly fascinating to be around. So that's what I've learned. I mean, I have some stocks now, we do, but we bought them for our son. We trade on a digital platform, but our money's in super, most of it. And that's something we really believe in and managed funds and things where other people make the decisions. But that's not because I don't believe in decision-making. I know the power of that industry and those people and I prefer to let them manage the money and us go out and spread the good word.

Vanessa (9m 8s):

And also we run a media business, you get large chunks of cash, you don't. Like it's a very different world than if you had a solid pulling in $3 million a year as a fund manager and then going "I'll deploy that capital here, here and here." And we've also got three sons, which are huge cash suckers let me tell you.

Phil (9m 26s):

What do people need to unlearn about money?

Vanessa (9m 28s):

I think people need to look at their childhoods. There's some people I know who actually had like accounting parents and just parents who taught them good. And I'm like, "Damn, you were lucky." But you know, they might've missed out in other ways. But one of the things you have to learn is to let go of how your family thought about money and how it has allowed you to think the same way and think, what do you want from your life? And how do you learn the skills to get that? If you're in the place you want to be, you probably don't have to unlearn a damn thing. But if you want to go somewhere else and you want financial firepower that allows you to have decisions in your life and not just surviving, then yeah, you need to unlearn what's been holding you back and you need to admit it.

Vanessa (10m 7s):

I think there's a lot of psychology in money.

Phil (10m 10s):

So what are some specific examples of things that people do need to unlearn?

Vanessa (10m 13s):

The characters in my book, there's so many good ones, but they are based on people I know, a whole bunch of them together. So there's one character in the book, Jasper who grew up watching his father work himself to death, like just work, work, work, work, work, an immigrant. And he just decided, I don't want to be like that. I don't want to be that person. So he went the other way and kind of went from sales job to sales job and didn't accumulate much. And got to the point when he was older and he realized all these friends in their forties were having houses. And you know, he was still living with his mom. And what did he have to unlearn? Well, it wasn't really about money, it was about life.

Vanessa (10m 53s):

Looking at someone and going, okay, you don't just have to work hard, you can work smart. And you don't have to be like your father to earn money, you know? So that's a big learning, you know? And for Karen, a character in my book, who is a mum, her husband, Russ, works in an accounting firm but Karen stayed home and looked after the kids. But she looks back on her life and knows her parents never had any expectation for her outside of being a mother, you know? And she did that incredibly well. Three children, well raised beautiful kids, but at the end of that, she's left with, well, what's in it for me. I'm just everybody else's facilitator. And she needed to learn that she could start her own online business, but take control and not just rely on her husband to make money, but yeah, she could make money and she could be in charge of the destiny to that extent and not just be the do-er for everyone.

Vanessa (11m 42s):

And maybe if her parents had had more aspiration for her, she would have known that sooner. But you know, they're the situations you're in.

Phil (11m 50s):

You sort of get, you always end up in a situation that you're born into, isn't it? And you just don't realize how much influence your parents do have on you.

Vanessa (11m 59s):

Nature versus nurture. We can argue that one out. And people even who say "I'm not influenced" or "I'm entirely different." Well, maybe you're entirely different because of that, because you decided I don't want to be that. You know, I hear so many stories, honestly, everywhere I go, people end up telling me some incredible money stories and how it's affected their life. And so many people that are older, which I really respect, reflect on their life and are telling me now, "Gee, if only I'd known this sooner" or, you know, "If only I'd shown an interest in my husband's business before it went bankrupt and we lost our house". Or, you know, I've got a lady writing for me now, actually on my site and she wrote a book called "Nice Handbag, Don't Forget Your Briefcase"

Vanessa (12m 46s):

because she, in her fifties, they lost all their money. And she's now in her mid sixties still working and trying to build some super for them so they can retire. But that's an incredibly difficult position to be in when you are in your fifties and sixties and hustling. I'd like to help people avoid that. The younger we can get them being interested in what do they want from life and how do they get that, what's their wealth strategy, the better.

Phil (13m 16s):

Obviously these kinds of relationships started somewhere. So when you're first meeting someone and you're falling in love, how do you start those conversations to work out whether there's going to be financial compatibility, as well as relationship compatibility?

Vanessa (13m 33s):

I like the word financial compatibility.

Phil (13m 34s):

We don't think about it very much, do we?

Vanessa (13m 37s):

No we don't, it's the last thing we're thinking of, you're thinking of isn't that you're thinking of how they make you feel. But you can observe very quickly the type of attitudes people have to money. And I often have like, I've got these 20 somethings in my life that either do my hair or, you know, they tell me their boyfriend's stories, you know, they spend on going out on the piss every weekend and she wants to save for a house and he doesn't want to, they're too young. And I think, oh, that's so tough. But you know, a lot of that comes down to just conversation. So I've actually built this set of guides now that there's sort of conversations, the five conversations you need to have. And it's sort of, here's the questions you need to outline and ask and also get them to answer it. Because the first thing you've got to decide is, are your values aligned?

Vanessa (14m 18s):

So if he wants to go out and spend on going out and you want to save, well, why do you want to save? Do you want a house? Do you want to have kids? Well what's his view on that? Like, it actually uncovers so much more than just what's going on with the drinking or the partying or whatever it is. And you know, I think, you know, we've got three sons and I think men, young guys are mature enough to be able to look at it and answer their own way, or at least start thinking about, well, maybe I do just want to have fun now, but maybe I could be investing in shares while you do your thing or yeah. Like the younger you start, like our son got a job at Domino's our eldest son delivering pizza.

Vanessa (14m 58s):

And like, I'm like, "What superfund did they put you in?" He's like, "Oh, I don't know." And I'm like, "Well, could you get an Australian Super or something big?" And any way, he ended up in Sunsuper, I think. And that's good, that's a good fund. So that was fine. But he had little to no interest and Sebastian loves money. So we were like, "What?" But he felt super was just, yeah, whatever.

Phil (15m 20s):

It's really important.

Vanessa (15m 20s):

And so we'll download the app and if we see you've got money and we'll match it, and if Nana gives money, she can put it in that. And he's like, "Oh, I don't want Nana's money to go when I'm 65." But at the same time, like, if you can teach them that you're going to have a couple of million bucks by the time you're 60, no matter if you're the biggest cock-up in the world, this is your back-up plan.

Phil (15m 45s):

No matter how far away it seems.

Vanessa (15m 46s):

So it's like, you can blow your life and still live like a king from 65. And I think that's a really important thing to teach young guys and girls so that when they get in relationships, I hope they can infect the same excitement. I can tell you that anyone I get to talk to after a little while, unless they hate me, which could happen, but, gets excited about looking at this stuff. Because it is exciting when you see your balance and you see investments turning over and you see I've got more money and I've done nothing. That is an exciting feeling.

Phil (16m 14s):

But then there's temptation once you see there's a certain amount in there, there's that holiday you can go on to or there's that car that you could buy.

Vanessa (16m 20s):

I know. And I think there's gotta be a balance. Like if you have nothing, I know we're going to talk about the FIRE movement and you know, it's a content project, right? So we were like, great, like we get it. Storytelling that sort of started the movement and how people live and identify as a community. And I think it's very cool, but I don't want to live like that. Like some people do

Phil (16m 39s):

Some people take it to the extremes, isn't it? There's the noodle FIRE movement that they're just going to live on noodles and not spend on anything. And you're a spender. I mean, you've already admitted. You're a spender. So what's the balance?

Vanessa (16m 51s):

There's no denying I'm a spender, but I think it's about identifying the things that are important to you to spend on. So, you know, I have a Gucci handbag, but I've had that handbag nearly four years. Like I have a Burberry coat, but I'll keep that coat for 25 years. So the things that I invest in and I consider them investments, I keep long-term. The things that I regret doing or the stuff in my twenties, the disposable fashion, the shit you bought to wear out and that next year it was out of style. That stuff I wish I hadn't done. But there wasn't the information back then. Like we weren't given it. There's no app back then there were no phones back then so we would have had to get a broker to buy shares back then. And in Gunnedah I wasn't sitting on calls to brokers.

Vanessa (17m 33s):

So it's just opened up the world for young people now and I'm excited for them for it. I think it's going to create a whole bunch of opportunities to live a very different life than we have.

Phil (17m 44s):

Yeah, by doing this podcast, I have the pleasure of meeting a lot of people in the FinTech industry that are building new broking platforms, they're also building apps where you can micro invest and they're given such a headstart. I mean, you've came from Gunedah, I came from the inner west of Sydney, but you know, our stories are very similar. We just didn't have those tools when we were younger where you could learn what you can do now and what's possible and the possibilities are endless. So how do you see the relationship between happiness and money?

Vanessa (18m 15s):

I think they're intrinsically linked and call me crazy if not. Do you know? I've just been invited to speak at a conference called “Happiness & Its Causes” and it's run by the Buddhists. Dalai Lama speaks to it a lot. And it's the first time they've ever included a money expert in the panel, which I was like, cool, I'm doing it for free, yay. But like at the same time, if you have financial wellbeing, you don't have to be wealthy to be happy, but you have to have control of your financial situation. You have to. If things are out of control and you don't know if bills are being paid and provisions are being made, then you have stress. And at the end of the day, it's all about just getting to a place where you feel that's your financial wellbeing.

Vanessa (18m 58s):

It doesn't mean you're greedy. It doesn't mean you have to be a multimillionaire. It just means you need to be comfortable.

Phil (19m 4s):

So what does it mean to be an investor these days?

Vanessa (19m 7s):

And how to be an investor or what does it mean when you're an investor? I think it's the difference between being a consumer and an investor, it shows someone's got the new apple phone and then someone owns the shares in apple. You know? So it is looking at that mindset of rather than consuming all the products, how about I invest in the company that makes the amazing products that everyone believes in? But often Woody, he loves this guy in the Philippines who talks about, you know, every day you invest is a day you don't have to work, trying to lift a whole bunch of people who are in very menial, low paid work, into creating a second income source because you're not taught that.

Phil (19m 42s):

Who is this guy?

Vanessa (19m 43s):

I don't know his name. I'll find out off Woody and send it to you so you can put it on the site. Cause he, yeah, but it is a great thought that, you know, I put in and one day I'm not going to have to go to work and I can choose. It's all about choices, isn't it? Being an investor and growing that source of income is just about being able to make choices in your life and not being stuck working somewhere 'cause you need the money.

Phil (20m 6s):

We've kind of been talking about people at different stages in their life. You know, I've been talking about people in their fifties, in their sixties and people when they're young, what are the differences between investing at different times in your life cycle?

Vanessa (20m 20s):

I think the earlier you start the better, obviously. So we've talked a lot about getting education out to people young, but I think you never stop being an investor. Like I see people and my mom is one of them that just put money in an account and that there's no interest coming in on that money. And even if she was in a low-risk index fund, like she'd be making something out of that fund, but she's just doesn't want the non-security of having that cash there. And I think that's the missed opportunity, you know, of even older people of not understanding that they go backwards if they sit still.

Phil (20m 54s):

Because a lot of people just think, okay, it’s cash, it's solid, it's safe and there just scared of doing anything with what they see as any kind of risk at all. I guess that's something you've got to unlearn as well; your own attitudes to risk.

Vanessa (21m 6s):

Yeah. And certainly, when you get older, you know, no one's racing to risk in old age, but at the same time it's missed opportunity and what you could leave the next generation. And also, you might be able to give a bit more with warm hands and enjoy it. If you're making a bit more on it, you know

Phil (21m 20s):

And enjoy a bit of life as well.

Vanessa (21m 22s):

That's what I think. Life's for the living, you know, so definitely. But you have to be an investor in your mindset, whether it's running a business, owning a property, you know, raising your kids and how do you create that mindset where you're constantly looking at what investment am I making in my life to get to the next level? I really believe in that.

Phil (21m 40s):

So let's talk about the specifics about what you're actually doing now. There's the book, there's the website, there's the appearances. Give us a bit of an overview about what you're doing.

Vanessa (21m 47s):

Well, I mean, all those things, the book is my passion. Like my number one thing I love to do is writing, it's always been my favourite. And I'm writing a COVID chapter to republish my book with what happened to everyone during COVID and there's a few alcoholics and sad stories there, so can't wait to share that with everyone. But I've built quite a large education capability within Evolution Media. And that's our real focus, which is licensed learning about money. Which we'll work with employers to get out to real people and super funds to get out to real people. Anyone who has a responsibility to a membership or customer base, you know, that wants to talk about financial wellbeing, that's the sort of content we'll be creating.

Vanessa (22m 34s):

So I'm actually going through the process of raising capital for that business at the moment, which is something I haven't done before. The only people who've ever invested in Evolution Media are my mum and dad. And they gave me 20 grand to start

Phil (22m 46s):

Hang on, you told me they were risk averse. Yeah.

Vanessa (22m 48s):

But they backed their Lammy. They back their little girl my parents have. Big time. That 20 grand I wouldn't have, well, maybe I would have figured out a way to start that business, but it certainly helped.

Phil (23m 0s):

Are there differences between what men and women need to learn and unlearn about their financial lives?

Vanessa (23m 6s):

It's proven that women run the household finances and do it pretty well but where they haven't had the confidence is to invest. And so I think it's a matter of gaining confidence by doing for young women or for older women, like throw yourself in there, set yourself an amount. I don't care if it's 50 bucks to start, you know, there's plenty of platforms you can start with 50 bucks. But you've got to set yourself goals to learn things for yourself. And it's just having the confidence and believing you can.

Phil (23m 30s):

It's not just about women though. Men have got to learn these kinds of habits as well. You're not just focused on women solely, are you? It's also about men and teaching them about what good lessons are for finance.

Vanessa (23m 44s):

Yeah, like I'm for everyone, Phil. And I mean, I'm obviously passionate about the sisterhood in a lot of ways but I also know that it's really important for everyone to have control of their financial future. And I've been thinking a long time about what I do to teach people that's in any way different or, you know, some things that you read or consume or watch change your life. Like Robert Kiyosaki wrote "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". Oprah promoted him, sure, but it changed people's lives. And the way they looked at how he grew up with the dad who invested in property versus his real dad who said, save your money and get a job. And that was just a powerful story that changed millions of people's lives.

Vanessa (24m 26s):

And I have an ambition to be a storyteller that changes people's lives. So I've looked at this a lot about what is this moment that you create for people that makes them take control of themselves. And I'm calling it a financial flashpoint. If I can get people to a financial flashpoint, which is a chemical reaction where people just make rapid change, then they're on their way. And your financial journey is a long one. And maybe I can give you another flashpoint in five years or never again but that's my aim: to give people as many financial flashpoints to take control themselves, around the world. So I don't think I'll ever stop doing this. I'm really passionate, you may have guessed, about this. And our kids have grown up in Evolution Media, and I very much see it as the Forrester family, like "Bold and the Beautiful"

Vanessa (25m 14s):

where everyone gets a role. I don't know if the boys think that, but I'm showing my channel 10 love background. But like, honestly, it's really good to do a job that you really can see people can change their lives and yeah, it's very rewarding and it's very exciting. So lots to do yet.

Phil (25m 30s):

So tell us about Vanessa world. How can we find out more and get in touch and get some more information?

Vanessa (25m 38s):

Vanessa world, have you seen that, what's that movie? "Being John Malkovich" where you're in his head and that's like ooh. Well, I've got a brand spanking new website called or And you can subscribe to my newsletter there and I'm putting stuff like that. I've just built this merry band. I feel like the guy out of, you know, when Hugh Jackman played the circus leader, like I've just built, like I did a creative call out and I've got like animators who are like 74 years old who were in the Navy and political cartoonists and romance writers who are financial planners, like

Phil (26m 13s):

So it's a Motley crew.

Vanessa (26m 14s):

Yeah, exactly. And a band of merry people and they're making some cool stuff. So if you subscribe, I'll send it out. And I'm only doing a monthly newsletter. You can go and read my blog all the time and that's where all the new stuff is. So that, at first, I will be going to as many employers as I can to get our financial wellbeing education out there. And that includes me speaking. So if anyone's listening to this, that books speakers on anything to do with wellbeing, particularly financial, I'll come in and then we've got programs designed to keep that up. Like the way we'll get to people en masse is through employers and super funds just because it's really hard, you know, to build consumer voice and be out there. I mean, you can try, but you need assistance from the corporate world.

Vanessa (26m 57s):

And my, you know, long connections in finance and longstanding, I've built trust over a number of years, which, you know, I value more than anything else, they're committed to trying to get this message to people too. So I'm very bullish about where it's going to go.

Phil (27m 8s):

Who are those people and what kind of message are they trying to get out?

Vanessa (27m 11s):

Well, the CEOs of most of the super funds that I am close to, and I was one of the founders of FEAL back in my twenties, which is the Fund Executive Association for CEOs of super funds. They're really committed to member education because their profit to member funds, and whilst people look at super funds and think, oh, who do you trust and whatever, if you look at profit to member funds and look at the calibre of the people that work there, they're unbelievable. And they're all purpose driven for the member. And so I'm very passionate about working with them. I love superannuation. When I was 26, I was dancing with the head of BHP superannuation to the Little River Band in the Melbourne Gentleman's Club.

Vanessa (27m 56s):

And I thought, "What the hell am I doing here?" And then I had this total feeling of just, this is where I belong and financial services was it for me.

Phil (28m 12s):

And you weren't a lonesome loser?

Vanessa (28m 14s):

No, I wasn't a lonesome loser.

Phil (28m 14s):

Not by the sounds of things

Vanessa (28m 15s):

I digress. Ah, okay. Well we better wrap this up Phil. Cause we've been talking for a long time now. Thanks for listening.

Phil (28m 24s):

Oh, thank you very much. Oh, you're doing the wrap up now. Thank you very much, that's my job. Thanks very much, it's been a real pleasure speaking with you.

Vanessa (28m 32s):

I've enjoyed it too. Thanks for having me.

Shares for Beginners is for information and educational purposes only. It isn’t financial advice, and you shouldn’t buy or sell any investments based on what you’ve heard here. Any opinion or commentary is the view of the speaker only not Shares for Beginners. This podcast doesn’t replace professional advice regarding your personal financial needs, circumstances or current situation