CALEB GIBBINS | from Cache

· Podcast Episodes
Start with $5 Then another $5 And another $5 after that... Caleb Gibbins from Cache Invest

How can you start investing with $5? The micro-investing space is a rapidly growing market and Cache is on a mission to help more people invest. Cache believes investing is a good decision for most, and that it’s the best way to build wealth and financial security over time. Micro-investing products provide an important avenue for many Australians to enter the market and gradually build their wealth.

Cache builds, manages and operates white-label investment products so companies do not have to do it all by themselves. We are powering a new wave of ground-breaking investment products in Australia, increasing choice and confidence for millions of Australians when it comes to investing for the first time.

Cache invest logo

Cache’s platform offering is transforming the way companies of all sizes launch and operate fintech investment products, making it more accessible for individuals to invest in the micro-investing space. With a growing community of fintech innovators, Cache supports clients such as Upstreet, Spriggy Invest and Unhedged, providing solutions for fintechs, retail banks, super fund, start-up investors and corporates.

" Micro investing helps people get into the market for the first time. And if you're trying to build an investment behaviour, that'll set you up for life. Micro investing is the perfect place to start. So although, yeah, your first $5 might not make you rich. But if that $5 is followed up by another $5 and another $5 in, and you set in place behaviours that allow you to build wealth over time, I think that's the best lesson you can ever have."

Caleb Gibbins founded Cache in 2018 after working as a funds management lawyer at law firm MinterEllison, where he launched products for BetaShares, Blackrock, Vanguard and Challenger. After working with some of the world’s largest fund managers, Caleb decided to create the next generation of fund management that empowers companies to offer investment products to their customers. Now, Cache is Australia’s #1 investing-as-a-service provider, powering many micro-investing apps.

“Micro investing is enabling many, many people to enter the market who could not enter the market before. And that's because the barriers to entry for micro investing products are so much lower than the barriers to entry on traditional investment platforms.”


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Chloe (3s):
Shares for Beginners

Caleb (5s):
The benefits of micro investing are not only the aggregate return. The primary benefit of micro investing, it helps people get into the market for the first time. And if you're trying to build an investment behaviour, that'll set you up for life, micro investing is the perfect place to start. So although, yeah, your first $5 might not make you rich. But if that $5 is followed up by another $5 and another $5, and you set in place behaviours that allow you to build wealth over time, I think that's the best lesson you can ever have.

Phil (29s):
G'day and welcome back to Shares for Beginners. I'm Phil Muscatello. It seems like only yesterday that investing in capital markets involved serious meetings with men in suits, lots of paperwork and large dollops of cash. Now you can start investing with spare change. How did this happen? And what are the dynamics behind this extraordinary revolution? G'day, Caleb.

Caleb (51s):
Hi Phil.

Phil (52s):
Thanks very much for coming in today.

Caleb (53s):
No worries.

Phil (54s):
Caleb Gibbons founded Cache in 2018, which now powers 7 out of 11 micro investing apps in the Australian market, but that's hopefully growing soon, isn't it?

Caleb (1m 5s):
Absolutely. We've got plenty more in the pipeline.

Phil (1m 7s):
Okay. So look, tell us about your background. You've got a legal background, haven't you?

Caleb (1m 11s):
Yeah. So when I started my career, I was a funds management lawyer at MinterEllison. And I assisted mostly large retail funds launch retail investment products into the market, including listed investment products and exchange traded funds.

Phil (1m 25s):
This is something interesting. When we talked, when we first met before this actual recording, you talked to me about what was involved in starting a fund. And I just briefly just wanted to go through it because I don't think a lot of listeners actually understand what goes into starting a fund. And we're talking about managed funds here really, aren't we?

Caleb (1m 44s):
Yeah, absolutely. I think investment products in general require a range of service providers or functions to get them off the ground. All our products are structured as managed investment schemes. Some of them look like managed funds. Some of them look a bit different, but structurally they all have the same core components.

Phil (2m 2s):
So these are the five pillars, wasn't it?

Caleb (2m 4s):
We call them the five pillars of investment products. So the first one is a responsible entity, which is the licensed entity that ASIC would require to take responsibility for the entire structure. In a typical managed fund that's also called the trustee. But in other structures it might not be a trustee. The second component is the manager who makes the decisions around what gets invested in and how. In some products that's active management, where there's a brain involved, someone picks trades or makes decisions around investments. And other products are passive where that function is done algorithmically or by some kind of formula. The third pillar is administration, which involves moving cash, rate recording transactions on a ledger or a register.

Caleb (2m 48s):
And making sure that when you give money to the investment product or platform, that you get the exposure that you're looking for. The next one is typically registry, which is the source of truth for managing all of those activities done by the administration platform. And between admin and registry, things like fund accounting kind of cross between them, some players put it in the admin bucket, some players put it in the registry bucket. And then finally there's custody, which is at the end of the day, somebody has to sit on the share register as the owner of the asset. And for most investment products in the market that's not the actual investor because they're not wanting to sit on 2000 share registries if they want to diversified exposure. So they'll go into a product and then the product invests in the assets.

Caleb (3m 29s):
And so to ensure that those assets are being held by a robust and secure business, the regs require a licensed custodian. And typically they are very large banks like JP Morgan or Citibank or similar.

Phil (3m 43s):
So this obviously means there's a lot of costs involved in starting up a fund, isn't there?

Caleb (3m 48s):
Yeah, there can be. I think most of those services have now matured to the point where they are available as a service.

Phil (3m 53s):

Caleb (3m 53s):
They all have their own cost structure. Typically there'll be a minimum costs to engage these service providers and the cost will be different depending on the service being provided. But when you get to scale, most of their fees boiled down to either a per account holder per year fee, a per transaction fee, a funds under management fee. There's all these costs involved in different directions. Typically the platform with the product will aggregate all those expenses and incur them itself and then charge the investors a very simple fee. And that might be just a single funds under management percentage fee for a classic managed fund. Or it could be like a monthly account holding fee for a micro investing app.

Caleb (4m 33s):
But typically investors get confused by having five or six different phase. So their pricing structure is boiled down to a simple, concise fee that is easy to understand by the investor.

Phil (4m 45s):
Do you think FinTech is disrupting this space? And if so, how?

Caleb (4m 50s):
The investing market certainly is changing very, very rapidly. And the number of people who are investing in the market is expanding very quickly. So if you went back three, five years ago, the number of people who invested in equities outside of super in Australia, sat at around 1 to 1.2 million people. That's only about 4% of the market. And so in other words, 95% of people didn't invest in equities outside of their superannuation. And the number of people, both investing directly through brokers and indirectly through micro investing apps now exceeds one and a half million. So more people in Australia are investing through micro investing products then on the ASX directly.

Caleb (5m 31s):
And that is leading to a widespread democratisation of equities investing in the population.

Phil (5m 37s):
So tell us about when you first started Cache and how the idea came to you.

Caleb (5m 42s):
Yeah. So the first idea was not to build an investment services business like we have. Now the original idea was to launch our own micro investing app under our own brand. And we built that the original concept was to have a real time liquid investment product that would be available on a debit. It was like an investment card. I thought this idea was going to change the world. And when I got to market, I realized that marketing is expensive and I'm better at building funds than I am at selling them. So around the time we completed the build and we will going to market several other fintechs and other companies reached out asking me questions, like, how did you get your license? How did you build the fund? How does it all work together? And it occurred to me that the bigger opportunity for us is not to build one investing app that could support our customer base, but we could build the infrastructure that supports a range of investment products that meets a much larger customer base through a whole range of channels.

Caleb (6m 37s):
And that way the products we launch could be tailored to different customers, meet different needs and ultimately touch many, many more people. And so we made a pivot about a year into our journey to become a multi-brand multi-fund strategy. And since then, we've now launched seven retail investment products. And we have a few more in the wings and I expect mobile coming in the future years.

Phil (6m 59s):
You originally had this thought that you were going to start a micro investing app. What is it about micro investing that you think is fulfilling a market need?

Caleb (7m 7s):
Micro investing is enabling many, many people to enter the market who could not enter the market before. And that's because the barriers to entry for micro investing products are so much lower than the barriers to entry on traditional investment platforms. So for a traditional investment platform, most people didn't feel comfortable in investing without five or $10,000. brokerage was 10 $20 a trade. I think COMSEC was $30 a trade until only a few years ago. And so you didn't feel comfortable investing small amounts because it was just cost prohibitive. You also couldn't invest in assets for less than like $500 per trade as the minimum trade size. So if you got an extra a hundred dollars, you couldn't put it into your account.

Caleb (7m 50s):
The experience was also pretty clunky. Like people would see charts, the number of options was endless and it was a very scary experience for a lot of first time investors putting that first 10 grand into the market, having no experience. And so micro investing as a category, solves almost all those problems. You can set up an account with $5 or, or similar. You can set up regular investments out of your paycheck, or you can round up your transactions while purchasing in store. And you can get started investing in a really safe, small environment, putting a small amount of money at risk to learn about the markets. And once you've put in that first $10, it grows to 50, it goes to 500. Soon you're looking down at a $3,000 balance and you've got experience investing and you're feeling like, oh, now I can put more money into products that I understand because I've seen how they work.

Caleb (8m 36s):
They typically also provide pretty diversified strategies, not all of them, but most of them. So you can go into the market in a way, which is far more manageable than say individual stocks or the risk of picking your own investment strategy.

Phil (8m 49s):
It also seems to me from outside that it's, education is a big part of the marketing. Isn't it, people are learning as they invest in, like you say, in a very safe, small low-risk environment.

Caleb (9m 1s):
Yeah, absolutely. I think the old fashioned introduction to investing was that like your uncle or your grandfather would encourage you to buy, you know, some Commonwealth Bank stocks or BHP, and you might get your shares,

Phil (9m 14s):
Specky miners.

Caleb (9m 15s):
Yeah. Probably as the second easy, second pitch. But like that was the introduction, right? And the barriers were high. You'd have to learn all about share certificates and order sizes and placing orders between 10 and four. And you'd get your, your certificates in the mail. Then after you bought your stock, you'd have to go tell the company, all this extra information. And, and like, there was a huge learning curve and it was all about stock picking at the end of the day, that's the traditional route to market. But obviously with the advent of index funds, ETFs diversified investment strategies, picking three or five blue chips is not always the best strategy for, for new investors. In fact, I think a diversified growth fund is probably more appropriate for most people.

Caleb (9m 54s):
And so as these more appropriate strategies come to market and people are learning about them, particularly with, you know, the widespread adoption of ETFs and like The Barefoot Investor's education that's come out, that's all push people towards these diversified products, which is probably a good thing for them. And now the education journey is about the investment behaviours rather than picking the stock itself. Right? The best way to get started in investing is learning to invest regularly over time, dollar cost averaging and building your portfolio. And hopefully you're putting it into a place where your portfolio can grow over time without too much management. And that's a very different educational experience to what we had just 10 or 20 years ago.

Phil (10m 34s):
And it's also, I find interesting that people now actually understand their superannuation a little bit more. I think a lot of people just think, okay, let's not even my money and they don't even have an idea of where it's going, but now this education actually provides the wherewithal to understand what is happening to the money, what assets allocation, all of that kind of stuff.

Caleb (10m 53s):
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's amazing to see the parallels between super and retail investing. Obviously they're very, very similar in some ways they both give you exposure to the market, but they're then very different in other ways, they, for different purposes, different investment horizons, different accessibility, I think in some ways it's good that most people don't play with their super very much, but it's supposed to be there for 20, 30 or 50 years. Whereas the micro investing products typically are for a five-year period or similar.

Phil (11m 21s):
The first company you worked with was Spriggy tell us about Spriggy. It's a really interesting business model, isn't it?

Caleb (11m 26s):
Yeah, Spriggy is a fantastic company. Before Cache works with Spriggy. Their only product was a debit card that they helped manage pocket money for parents and children. And the Spriggy approached us in a proposed this idea that we helped them launch an investment product for parents to help them put away money regularly, to save a balance for their children. So that by the time the kids turn 18, they might look down and find, you know, 50 or a hundred grand built up over 20 years. And that's a fantastic product, right? And so we worked with them to put that product in a market and it's been fantastic to see as the investment options grow and the customers use it, how parents are really saving up that nest egg for their kids.

Phil (12m 4s):
So on this podcast, we've also had Christian from Upstreet and Peter from Unhedged tell us about those products.

Caleb (12m 11s):
Yeah. Upstreet and Unhedged to also both micro investing products on our platform, but they're also very different Upstreet's a share reward platform. I mean, when you make purchases at a participating retailer, you can earn stock back in that retailer as a reward. So you become exposed to the companies that, you know and love. That product for us was exciting because obviously the range of investment options is so much wider than we'd had in our other more diversified products. And it's really been exciting to work with them, to build infrastructure that supports, you know, rewards down to 1 cent so that if you buy like a $1 chocolate, you can get 1 cent in a reward. If it's a 1% cashback, for example, whereas Unhedged is a, is the other end of the spectrum, much larger balances than once they provide an algorithmic trading product that's available within a micro investing app.

Phil (13m 0s):
It's like a hedge fund, isn't it?

Caleb (13m 3s):
It's not a hedge fund.

Phil (13m 5s):
It's called Unhedged sorry.

Caleb (13m 6s):
Yeah. So I think unhedged is definitely not a hedge fund, but it provides an algorithmic trading return designs to try and beat the market. Hedge funds are a bit different in a sense that they try and go across the market and give you uncorrelated returns. Whereas Unhedged is trying to beat the market rather than provide an uncorrelated written. But the point is that it's an algorithmic trading fund available within a micro investing app that allows you to deposit money and watch it grow over time.

Phil (13m 35s):
So what would you say to people who criticize micro investing as well, you know, what's the point of starting with $5?

Caleb (13m 41s):
I think that it's pretty narrow sighted, the benefits of micro investing and not only the aggregate return, the primary benefit of micro investing. It helps people get into the market for the first time. And if you're trying to build an investment behaviour, that'll set you up for life. Micro investing is the perfect place to start. So although, yeah, your first $5 might not make you rich. But if that $5 is followed up by another $5 and another $5 in, and you set in place behaviours that allow you to build wealth over time, I think that's the best lesson you can ever have. So I think micro investing products are a fantastic way to enter the market. And if you do invest regularly, you can build a significant balance and own a generous return over time.

Phil (14m 18s):
So I think we've only covered about three of the seven. So who are the other clients and what products are they building?

Caleb (14m 25s):
We have two ethical investment products out. Now there's a product called Bloom, which is run by a team that have spun out of Future Super, which is very exciting. That's an actively managed ethical investing app. And then we have another ethical investing app called Koala, which is more of a negative screen, ethical investing app in a passive strategy.

Phil (14m 43s):
So negative screen means that you're just, you're getting rid of say the tobacco companies or the fossil fuel companies. Is that

Caleb (14m 49s):
Yeah, that's right. So it provides a more index based return, but it companies that they've considered a non ethical in accordance with their, with their strategy. So ones like a more direct, targeted, concentrated approach. And one's a more diversified, passive exclusionary approach. And they're both, I think very appropriate approaches in the ethical space, but they've just got different strategies which are more appropriate to different investors.

Phil (15m 12s):
So I believe you're also now targeting much larger players to be able to provide their own micro investing apps as well. Not just like the small start-ups, but some of the, the bigger financial institutions is that right?

Caleb (15m 25s):
Yeah, that's right. So although I can't drop names on the podcast, we do have a, a bank who will be delivering a micro investing app embedded in their product in their banking app. Hopefully towards the end of this year, we've also signed up with a large active fund manager who will be backing their own micro investing product into the market. And we see this as a fantastic opportunity for us, but also a maturing of the market customers in this segment, one access to investments and the large financial institutions have access to some of the best investment products available. So I think it's a natural maturity to see the larger players coming to this market to provide their products to more customers.

Phil (16m 2s):
And how does ownership in your portfolio work in micro investing? Because we know about CHESS sponsored. Like if you go to ComSec and buy some shares, you actually own them in your own name. How does it work with micro investing?

Caleb (16m 15s):
Micro investing products are typically managed investment fund structures, and that's because to get started on low amounts, it doesn't make sense to trading your own name. Like you need $500 per stock, for example, to trade on the ASX. And that's just not viable. If you've only got, you know,

Phil (16m 30s):
Five dollars

Caleb (16m 30s):
Even two grand, that's like that's four stocks, so you're not going to get very far. So for micro investing products, they're typically unitized trust structures or similar where customers receive units in a trust or securities in a structure. And that gives them a fractional entitlement to the returns of the structure as a whole. And then that allows that structure or that product to go trader strategy, which can be more advanced than the investor could get themselves. And then that return is shared amongst the investors proportionately to their investment.

Phil (16m 58s):
So does that get quite complex, you know, having to deal with the money in these, because you know, you're talking about a lot of smaller amounts deployed across a whole range of strategies.

Caleb (17m 7s):
Yeah. That's basically what our business is all about. So the

Phil (17m 10s):
Is managing all that, aren't you? Yeah.

Caleb (17m 11s):
Yeah. Well, I think the

Phil (17m 13s):
Wrangling wrangling that

Caleb (17m 14s):
Yeah, the, the traditional fund administrators and registry providers, when built for the volume of transactions that you say in micro investing apps, I think you'll find that a lot of the large fundies in the market that are unlisted may only have like three or 4,000 investors, but they may have contributed billions of dollars. And so a traditional fund administrator might be able to handle up to a few thousand investors, but then definitely not built for tens of thousands, let alone hundreds of thousands and micro investing products often designed to assist every investor trade every week or every month. And they're designed to have very large numbers of account holders. So the technology stack required to support that is pretty advanced.

Caleb (17m 57s):
The stack that we run at Cache kind of looks like a, a core banking system on the registry side and then a traditional fund management. Yeah.

Phil (18m 4s):
And what does that mean? A core banking system on the registry. So yeah, that's jargon.

Caleb (18m 11s):
Yeah. So core banking systems are designed for very large numbers of transactions to be processed very quickly through a ledger or registry platform. Traditional fund managers don't have that sort of tech. Some of them I know are on Excel spreadsheets and the ones that aren't are on platforms that are not much more advanced. And so our stack has been designed from the ground up to support scale in a way that is similar to a core banking system would on the registry side. But once the money is settled and we know all of the unit transactions that have occurred, the deployment of money into the market on behalf of the investors in our business looks very similar to a traditional fund manager. So on one side of the business, we look a little bit like the tech stack of a bank.

Caleb (18m 51s):
And on the other side, it's more the fund management stack of a traditional fund manager.

Phil (18m 56s):
So these kinds of micro investing products are quite common in the US it's a much more mature market. Isn't it? I mean, Betterment is a company that comes to mind.

Caleb (19m 5s):
Yes. The US appears to be three or four years ahead of us, I think in this market. Yeah. Betterment and Wealthfront of the traditional robo advisor, micro investing products. So they provide more advisory type services and they try and personalize to the customer. There are also other platforms like Acorns or Stake and others that provide more traditional micro investing type experience where you can round up transactions or just regularly dollar cost average into diversified portfolios. And then there's been a series of banks that have entered the space over their retail banks who are offering diversified investment products within their banking experience as an added value service to their customers. And it's been particularly exciting for us to see companies like, like Marcus and, and Citibank into that space, because it provides some institutional rigor to the proposition that customers want this.

Caleb (19m 55s):
And it's not just customers of fintechs, it's customers wanting to build wealth across the market.

Phil (20m 1s):
So looking into your crystal ball, what do you see in the future in terms of democratisation of investing?

Caleb (20m 7s):
I think that the trends we've been seeing regarding the increase in adoption of investment products generally will continue. We've already seen almost 2 million people start investing across micro investing and broking apps over the last like three years. And that's been growing at roughly a hundred percent year on year. So I dunno if we'll keep a hundred percent annual growth rate, it might slow down on a percentage basis, but I definitely see a market of five to 10 million accounts in the near future. And that will enable more and more Australians to put their money, to work into an equities or other investment portfolio over time.

Phil (20m 42s):
Yeah. And I think that you can see that there's so much when you look at social media these days, there is so much discussion from talking about money and how they can invest. And what's an ETF and all of that sort of thing. Then this is part of the process of what's going on. Isn't it?

Caleb (20m 57s):
Yeah. Well like a Cache. We believe the active investing is an almost universal good behaviour, right? And I think if only 5% of the market were doing it, I mean, it's 95% of the market are not taking this natural, healthy behaviour that they probably should. Obviously the problem with investing is you've got to do it right, and it feels scary and risky. So the fact that there's a flood of new products coming to market, which are designed to help people invest for the first time in a managed risk environment is fantastic because hopefully it'll create this bedrock of behaviour through the community that not only do you save cash to buy a house, but you can also put it to work in an investment portfolio to build wealth over time.

Phil (21m 35s):
Do you find that there's any changes in the gender balance of people investing because of micro investing. Now

Caleb (21m 42s):
That's a fantastic question. I don't know, across the segment, but we have a range of products and they all have different demographics. They're all targeting different customer bases. Some of them are more male and some of them are more balanced. I don't think any of them are female dominated, but I think it's definitely expanding.

Phil (21m 57s):
So what are the kinds of mistakes that people can avoid by starting out with micro investing?

Caleb (22m 5s):
Oh, I think with micro investing a bit hard to make a mistake. And I say that not from a pure returns perspective, like markets go up and down and there are higher risk products and lower risk products. But I think the act of micro investing is not designed to get the maximum return on your first $100. It's designed to introduce you to the market of investing so that you can build a behaviour that builds wealth over time. And I think virtually any of these products will give you an exposure to the markets and help introduce you to the activity of investing. And if you remain with that product over time and build a large balance that generates a positive return, that's fantastic. And if it's a stepping stone to other products, that's also fantastic.

Caleb (22m 45s):
So I'd say the entire concept of micro investing is it's designed to be an introductory product that helps people get started with low balances. So I think it's pretty hard to go wrong with your first a hundred dollars in any of these products.

Phil (22m 57s):
And that's also the idea of long-term horizon and investing as well, which I think for a long time, people sort of, they go into the market and think that they get to make really good money really quickly. And that is a big mistake. Get there during markets with that idea.

Caleb (23m 13s):
Well, I'd say that's a strategy that some people pursue. It's definitely not something you typically do in a micro investing products. None of them are designed for a quick return. It's definitely not a crypto trading desk or a micro-caps trading desk. Like there are products for people who want to make those sorts of bets, but I think the micro investing segment is not the best place for those sorts of strategies.

Phil (23m 34s):
Yep. So Cache that's really B2B, isn't it. But what message do you want to give to listeners about what cash is doing and how they should think about you?

Caleb (23m 44s):
Cache is on a mission to help more people invest money for the first time. I think your listeners should invest. It's a great behaviour. They should go find a product that suits their needs. If they have an investor before they should consider a micro investing product or platform, it's a fantastic place to start and they should start putting away money so that they can grow wealth over time. It's a fantastic behaviour. Cache is a business we're providing infrastructure that makes that happen for a range of micro investing products and other digital investment platforms. And so if your customers want to know who we are, hopefully hopefully there might be a customer of ours, but they may not even know it. Right.

Phil (24m 19s):
We didn't talk about Pearler as well. That's another one of your customers, aren't they?

Caleb (24m 23s):
Yeah. Pearler is a broking platform primarily that allow people to regularly invest into ASX, listed stocks and US listed stocks. They're a fantastic company, great culture. The cultural fit between them and us is strong. They have a very strong focus on regular investment. I think their tagline is get rich slow, which I like

Phil (24m 43s):
And a boring but beautiful investing. Yeah,

Caleb (24m 46s):
Exactly. It's that classic long-term investing mentality. And so they had a problem with their platform, which of course was that their broken customers love it, but they don't know how to invest $50 or a hundred dollars. And they wanted to get a micro investing experience up and running. So we worked with Pearler to deliver Pearler Micro, which allows you to invest into their most popular, listed ETFs on a regular micro basis.

Phil (25m 8s):
Well, it's great to have you on the podcast because like, you know, we've had the guys from Pearler on the podcast and like I said, Peter Bakker from Unhedged and Christian Eckelman from, from Upstreet. So it's really good to see what's behind it. And what's powering these ideas because it's all about encouraging innovation, isn't it?

Caleb (25m 30s):

Phil (25m 30s):
Well, no, no it is. I mean, you're providing the wherewithal that people can, like you said, near the start of the interview, you realised how much is marketing and that perhaps there were other people that were better at marketing than yourself.

Caleb (25m 43s):
I think the micro investing industry is maturing. Like most others that people find a place where they perform very well. And where we perform well is investment infrastructure. And we provide a large component of the investment stack. That's required to offer an investment product to a customer in Australia, but that doesn't mean that we need to go design every product. We need a distributed or cultivated community. We'll learn what those customers want. If there are entrepreneurs and other businesses who come along and go, we found a need, we found a customer, they want a product that looks like this, that we could distribute like this. Then their problem is they have to build an investment stack, which might cost them like one or $2 million in 12 or 18 months to put in place.

Caleb (26m 23s):
So if we can assist them and say, we'll get you to market in 90 days at a fraction of the cost, we can do what we do best. And then they can do what they do best. And as a result, the cost is lower. The speed is higher. The new innovative products get to market and those customers get access to products that they wouldn't otherwise get access to.

Phil (26m 42s):
Fantastic. Caleb Gibbins. Thanks very much for coming in and joining me today.

Caleb (26m 45s):
No worries. Thanks Phil.

Phil (26m 46s):
If you found this podcast helpful, please tell a friend, especially if it's someone who needs to start thinking about investing for their future. You'll be helping them and helping me to keep this show on the road.

Chloe (26m 56s):
Shares for Beginners is for information and educational purposes only. It isn't financial advice and you shouldn't buy or sell any investments based on what you've heard here. Any opinion or commentary is the view of the speaker only, not Shares for Beginners. This podcast doesn't replace professional advice regarding your personal financial needs circumstances or current situation.

Phil (27m 15s):
And thank you for listening to my podcast.

Shares for Beginners is for information and educational purposes only. It isn’t financial advice, and you shouldn’t buy or sell any investments based on what you’ve heard here. Any opinion or commentary is the view of the speaker only not Shares for Beginners. This podcast doesn’t replace professional advice regarding your personal financial needs, circumstances or current situation